The Herbalist's Balance of Empathy and Professionalism

Blast from the Past! Episode from 2009.

Have you ever walked into a space feeling immediately judged, your personal journey dismissed before you even shared your story? Demetria Clark, herbalist extraordinaire and the heart behind Heart of Herbs Herbal School, joins us to unpack the sensitive dynamics between herbalists and clients. She advocates for a practice steeped in empathy and acceptance, where the focus is on personalized care rather than pushing products. Throughout the episode, Demetria shares stories from her own experiences, emphasizing the importance of acknowledging each client's unique path and the profound impact that feeling understood can have on their health and wellness.

Navigating the delicate dance of professional boundaries in holistic practices is no easy feat. As practitioners, how do we balance the personal and the professional, especially when the lines threaten to blur? Demetria addresses this head-on, revealing her own struggles and triumphs in maintaining effective and ethical relationships with clients. She doesn't shy away from the tough topics, discussing how to handle family requests for advice without compromising professional integrity and the importance of carving out personal sanctuary when your practice is based at home.

Money matters can be messy, but they're a crucial part of any professional practice. Demetria gets real about the nuts and bolts of setting a professional fee structure, sharing her journey from sliding scale payments to establishing a value for her services that truly reflects her expertise and the hidden costs of her work. For fellow herbalists and health practitioners, this episode promises a treasure trove of insights into valuing your services confidently and fairly. And for her students, Demetria offers a rallying cry of support, inspiring a vision of a community that stands strong together, nurturing growth and potential in the field of herbalism.

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The content provided in this podcast is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease or medical condition. It is always recommended to consult with a qualified healthcare professional

Chapters

• 0:00 Herbalist's Approach to Client Interaction
• 13:39 Setting Boundaries in Holistic Practice
• 20:02 Setting Boundaries and Fees in Practice
• 25:59 Setting Professional Fee Structure for Herbalists
• 39:11 Supportive Herbal School Message

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:37

Oh my goodness. Hi. This is Demetria Clark from Harder Verbs Herbal School and I was just re-listening to this blast from the past. It's from, I believe, 2009. And I thought this would make a really cool podcast because a lot of it is still pertinent today, but also a lot of things have changed. So, like, at one point, we reference wages and stuff like that, and it's good to see how they've grown and they've changed. But I thought I would just share this with you because it is something that is part of our earlier work, our earlier work online, and it can just I don't know kind of introduce you to my development and growth, too, in herbalism. So thanks for listening and I hope you enjoy this blast from the past.

Speaker 2: 1:29

This is the Heart of Herbs Herbal Podcast. This is an herbal lecture from Heart of Herbs Herbal School. My name is Demetria Clark and I'm the founder and the director. The lecture today is going to cover just basically working with clients, and I'm kind of doing this off the cuff because it was something that I was thinking about this morning on my morning walk.

Speaker 2: 1:53

Sometimes, when you're a practicing herbalist, you can come into it with a few different ideas, and I think this is great, but what I want you to do as a practicing herbalist is to take a step back and think about what herbalism is to you and how important your interactions are with clients. Why do clients come to you is one of the first things that you need to think about, and I know in my vast experience. Clients would come to me for a variety of different reasons. Some would be that they simply liked my name. Some would want to talk to someone who had children and understood what having children is like and what kind of lifestyle that involves. Some would come to me because they just wanted someone who had a friendly face to talk to them about their health issues and be supportive at whatever level they're at. So the most important thing is when you're first interacting with a client is to not sit in judgment. Unfortunately, this is kind of common. Unfortunately this is kind of common.

Speaker 2: 3:06

Um, I know when I've gone to herbalist and I know when other people have come to me having seen other herbalist, they felt really judged. I had one woman come to me who wanted some information about herbs and breastfeeding and I said to her why don't you go to the health food store, look at what's available, ask some questions about some of the product that they have, and then let's get back together and talk and see what you can find locally available? She came back to me in tears. She felt so judged by the people in the store that she could not even ask the right questions and she felt judged because of the way that she was dressed. She's, you know, a young mom who you know didn't traditionally fit a lot of the health food, small health food store clientele mentality. She had never really considered health food before. You know, she had the hair and the nails and and very beautiful woman, very sweet woman, and when she went in to ask for advice or for information, she felt because she wasn't a hippie or a vegetarian or any of those other labels we put on people. She felt very insecure about the whole process.

Speaker 2: 4:30

So one of the first things you want to do when interacting with clients is you want to be comfortable yourself and you want to feel comfortable and you want to dress comfortably. But what you don't want to do is judge their comfort, judge the way that they dress. I mean, this is really simple and it's almost absurd that I even have to talk about it. But people, people dress because of the way that they feel or they they dress certain ways. I'm a very funny person when it comes to dress. When I have to go out and lecture, I will do the whole you know dress up thing, but other than that, I'm pretty much like you know Albert Einstein. You know four pairs of black pants, four black shirts. I mean, I'm pretty simple that way.

Speaker 1: 5:15

I don't want to think about it.

Speaker 2: 5:16

I don't want to worry about presenting a certain image. I have stuff to do and I'm very much like that, and I'm very comfortable with the fact that sometimes I can't go in and out of certain crowds without altering my appearance. If I have to do a lecture for a group of physicians, I'm certainly not going to wear my yoga pants and clogs. I'm going to have to think about that. So think about the way that you present to clients and remember that the way someone dresses has nothing to do with their heart, has nothing to do with their background, has nothing to do with ideals. It's really just what clothes they like, and for someone to feel judged by the way that they're presenting themselves when they walk in the door is horrible. I mean, it hurts their heart and it sets the whole tone of the further intake. The next thing I want to talk about is pushing product to fit ailment. A lot of times you'll hear stories about and I've talked to other heart of herb students about this before and I think I'm pretty clear about my thoughts on this. But it's really important that we don't say well, you know, you're complaining of this, this and this, and I have this thing that will help you Go a little deeper. Don't count so much on pre-made teas, pre-made remedies or selling your own product line. I know it's important to sell your own product line if it is part of your business, and I'm not telling you to back away from that business model. What I am saying, though, is to think about alternatives and options for people.

Speaker 2: 6:54

I always give this example in my classes. A woman calls you at 2 o'clock in the morning and she needs something for an acute situation for one of her children. And what are the questions that you were going to ask her? Is it something that the child needs to go to the hospital for immediately? What's going on? After you've gotten down the preliminaries and you know of the health situation, don't be afraid to refer someone. Look, you need to go to the doctor. I know you don't of the health situation. Don't be afraid to refer someone. Look, you need to go to the doctor.

Speaker 2: 7:23

I know you don't like the doctor, you're afraid of the doctor, or you know you haven't had good experiences, or you know maybe you don't have the money, but if you need to go, you need to go, and it's really that simple. Now the other part of that is what do you have in your house that's available? I always use a good one for teething. That seems to be an issue. Everybody knows that you probably don't need to go to the physician for, but it has been known to drive parents crazy. So the mother's like well, I've tried breastfeeding through the teething, but you know what I've been bit, you know. Or if they use a bottle, the baby's biting the tip off the bottle. I mean, this is not, this is okay, so this isn't working. Then you say to them what's available in these three places your bathroom medicine chest, your kitchen spices and your kitchen. You know your whole kitchen assortment and your backyard and then you go from there and you give them viable options of what's available to them right there in their own home, so they don't feel like they need to try to find a place that's open 24 hours a day that's going to sell some obscure herb. That's not going to happen in most places. I don't know if a lot of you know this, but I actually live intercontinentally and I'm pretty open about this and students know this. I spend part of myinentally and I'm pretty open about this and students know this. I spend part of my time in Europe and I spend part of my time in the United States and the school has two offices. But in Europe, and especially where I live in Europe, the stores close at 6.30 at night. They open at 8 o'clock in the morning and they're not open on Sunday and some places will stay open a little late on Saturday night. A little late is seven o'clock, maybe eight o'clock. What I'm saying is if a client where I live calls me and everything's closed, then you really don't have any other options except to say, okay, what are in these three places? This was also the same when I lived in Vermont. There were stores that were open 24 hours a day, but I'm not going to tell a woman to hop into her car and drive 45 minutes if it's not necessary because she has a life and she has a family to take care of and she has herself to take care of, or the road conditions could prohibit this kind of movement. Anything could. The fact that her husband works the shift and he's got the car. Or you know, the wife works the shift and she's got the car.

Speaker 2: 9:46

So really think about the real practicalities of someone's life when they come in and sit down in front of you, find out about their life. Now, I'm not saying that you need to become their best friend. I'm not saying that you need to. You know, never give them any solution that requires them leaving the home. But what I am saying is really be aware of where they're at in their life. So once you have that, you can talk to people about what's available in their home. So you can say, well, you can do this or you can do that, and you can try to people about what's available in their home. So you can say, well, you can do this or you can do that and you can try to be really helpful. And you can also tell them things that they can use in their home and make for a later date. So it's really important to understand where people are at and often, you know, practitioners of all sorts can kind of get involved in what their whole world revolves around and a commitment to something for them may be different than a commitment to someone else as far as finding a viable solution. So I think that's really important. Just to try to see things from the client perspective. I also think it's important to have a really detailed intake. Now your intake will have to deal with what your skills are. If you're purely an herbalist with no other medical background or anatomy and physiology training or drug interactions training, you need to look at how to strengthen your strengths. If you use Reiki or crystal therapy or aromatherapy as another therapy, then you can talk to people combining those things from what your other strengths are.

Speaker 2: 11:36

Now I'm pretty fortunate. I have a pretty vast background in a few different modalities because I am a nerd and I'm always in college and I've literally been in college for 13 years taking different classes of things that I think will help me and I think that's really important. And I always joke with hard of herbs students who come for apprenticeship programs that you know. Basically I'm working to pay for myself to keep going to school and they I think they probably think I'm a little nuts, but when they get to know me a little bit better and I'm talking about having to do a final for a master's thesis and blah, blah, blah. They get it and they're like, oh okay, she really is a nerd and I'm perfectly comfortable with that, just just in case you were wondering. So, really, you know, and the great thing is is that there are free classes available or very inexpensive classes.

Speaker 2: 12:35

I know a lot of students have come to me because of what their other field was, so they were EMTs and they wanted to learn more about herbs, or they were nurses or doctors or they were accountants who were dealing with, you know, stress and they wanted, you know, so, so kind of you know, look at. You know, if you're an accountant and an herbalist, you know the effects money can have on people as far as stress, and you know, really, look at that. So maybe if you're working with a client who is $30,000 or $40,000 in debt, you know you can maybe give them some perspective that maybe someone who isn't used to working with money would be able to understand and that can be something of value that you can do. So, you know, really, think about the different places that you've come from and don't assume you're an expert on everything that you've ever done. You know, really, think about the different places that you've come from and don't assume you're an expert on everything that you've ever done. You know you can say, well, I've read this or you know I've heard this before. We can look it up together, or you can look it up at home or I can email you some resources.

Speaker 2: 13:39

Really, try to assist people in coming to a wholer health way of thinking without shoving your dogma down their throat, because nobody likes to be preached to. It hurts their feelings, it makes them feel bad. I don't like it. You know I don't like it when you know my mechanic's looking at me like I'm nuts because I'm not the greatest when it comes to car maintenance. You know I don't like feeling like I don't know something, but in reality I don't know much about cars, especially the new ones. They're all run on computers. You know I can work a computer at home, but don't ask me how to work one in my dashboard. So you know it's very much that you need to really see your client's perspective and try to understand that perspective. Another thing I wanted to talk to you about, and it's something that sometimes is a hard issue to talk about.

Speaker 2: 14:37

Maybe I'm a hard ass, I don't know. But I tend to not make clients friends and I'm pretty clear with people that I'm a professional and it's a conflict of interest. And I remember meeting a and it's a conflict of interest. And I remember meeting a woman who was a client and we got along really well and I knew that we would be friends. But I had to say to her okay, you know our working relationship's kind of over and you know you call me and we chat and you know we're starting to hang out and I need to know if you want me as your herbalist or your friend. Now, that doesn't mean that there isn't any crossover, but what I needed to be really clear in my head is that we were going to be friends and you know. So basically I was like look, do you want me to be your friend or do you want me to be your herbalist? Because we need to decide right now. So there isn't any conflict of interest, there isn't any uncomfortable overlap, there isn't any feeling of let down if I am unable to assist you, um, because I still charge my friends. Okay, there isn't this whole like you're my friend, now there's freebie. And it was hysterical because she just she started laughing so hard. She said nobody's ever said that to me. And I said you know, the thing is that it's really important that we're clear about this and we decided to be friends and occasionally, you know, if there's something that comes up with her kid, I help her as a girlfriend who happens to be an herbalist, but she's no longer my client. Now, of course, you don't have to be as drastic as that. I've never had an issue with getting clients or having clients. So maybe if your client pool is a little bit smaller or you're not as well known in your community, you may not want to be like that. But there is a great difference for me between a friend and a client. Friends I let into my life, clients I don't. I don't feel that it's anyone's business to know all about my family, but my friends are welcome into my home and my world. So there needs to be a real clarity inside of you about what's important with your practice.

Speaker 2: 16:45

Personally, you know, I used to teach in my home and my children came to me one day and they said Mommy, I'm just tired of all these crazy ladies coming over and they're all hugging on me and I don't like it and I said you know what? That's a real valid point. I would not have liked it if a few days a, a few days a month, you know, this horde of people came to you know, be with my mom and do stuff with my mom. But if I walked into the room, they wanted to touch me or talk to me or see how I was doing, because there was the thought that instantly, because they were in my home, there's access to my family. So that's something that you need to think about. Home, there's access to my family. So that's something that you need to think about.

Speaker 2: 17:32

I recently had a client a student actually call because of an issue with a student of hers and I really felt for her because I understood what it's like to bring people into your home and really you have no way of knowing who you're bringing into your home. So make sure that you have good boundaries with clients. They can't just show up or they're not invited to dinner. If your practice is in your house and your husband or wife is in the kitchen making dinner, it's not. You know, this is two separate things. And you're not instantly invited to participate in our family dinner. Don't show up uninvited. I have had so many people show up at my house on a Saturday or Sunday because they want to hang out and I have no idea who they are. You know they'll be like, oh, I'm one of your students, or oh, I read one of your articles, or oh, I read, you know, this book that you. You know, in the back of this book, you know, it said that you blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2: 18:23

I just thought I would drop by no-transcript. But what I'm saying is there needs to be some kind of boundaries for your family and it's really important to protect your family and it's really important that your family is sacred, just as their families are sacred. And to be really clear with people, if they show up out of the blue, that this is not okay, especially if you practice in your home, especially if they're using your family bathroom or have to go through your kids' space to, you know, get to a part of the house that you're working in, because this really is their sacred ground, not your clients' and not your business'. It's your family's sacred ground that, your clients and not your businesses. It's your family's sacred ground. That's why it's your home. Okay. So I've kind of talked about that and boundaries.

Speaker 2: 19:38

And then another thing with practice and clients I'd like to talk about is treating family members. This can get tricky. Family members love us and they want everything that you do to work for them instantly. So sometimes it can be hard and sometimes you just have to. You know, I mean, you know I always have people oh, what can I do with it? What can I do with it? And I know that.

Speaker 2: 20:02

You know, six months ago they asked me about the same thing and they didn't make any changes. So you know, basically, I mean you know there's words used for people like me, right, but you know I'm basically like look, you know we've talked about this before. This is my time at a big family event to hang out. You know you can call me, you can make an appointment. You know this isn't the first time we've talked about this. You didn't implement anything that I suggested before. So why are we having this conversation again?

Speaker 2: 20:33

And at first, you know I could tell someone's feelings were hurt, but now they just know better that. You know, if they're not going to implement the changes and if they're not going to respect my time because I'm their niece or their cousin or their aunt, that you know it's. They know what the answer is that they're going to get from me and basically it says this family sacred time and because I feel very strongly about family and I feel very strongly about supporting my family and you know I will help anyone in my family if they ever ask me. I mean, I have no problem with that whatsoever and you know what. To be 100% honest, I'm sure many of them have gotten advice that they didn't really want from me, very much unsolicited advice from the big mouth in the corner, and you know I understand that and I understand that people need to be heard.

Speaker 2: 21:25

But there are times when you have a family member that you know may always be asking you something that you need to put your foot down to preserve some of the stuff that's important to you. When you get together with family, often family members will want to ask you about friends of theirs so they can go back to them and tell them. You know, oh, I asked my blah blah blah and she's blah blah blah. But you know that's kind of a tricky situation and so maybe I would, you know, say, well, why don't you have them call me? It's not really good to get health information second or third or fourth hand. You know, aunt Edna has a friend who has a sister who has a cyst. I mean, I have no idea where to go with that. You know I'm like, well, where is it? Oh, I don't know. You know. So, really kind of, you know, think about these things and these kind of situations as your practice develops.

Speaker 2: 22:15

Now, another important thing about having a practice is to have some kind of safe, comfortable place to meet with your clients. I'm not saying that you need to have a separate office building. I'm not saying that you need to have a place that's devoid of all family memorabilia or pictures or anything like that. What I am saying, though, is that you need to have a place where they can be comfortable, and your comfort is not the same as their comfort. If you have a man come in who's you know six foot six, 350 pounds, he may not want to sit on some little kitchen chair. He may not feel comfortable in that chair, or someone whose knees really hurt may not want a really low cushion on the ground. So, really kind of thinking about having different seating options available and having a space where they can come in and they choose where to sit.

Speaker 2: 23:16

As a practitioner, I've done intakes on birth balls, sofas, backwards kitchen chairs, folding chairs, whatever know, whatever it took, because I'm the one who's supposed to be flexible, I'm the one who's supposed to be able to support them in the way that they need to be supported. And so, thinking about that kind of stuff, you know, is this person going to be able to access my house? They're in a wheelchair or they use a cane, or I know she just had a hip operation. Thinking about those kinds of things. Personally I don't go and do intakes at other people's houses. I'm not comfortable with that because you know I like having access to all the stuff that I need to assist them fully. But it's also a safety issue. But I have met with clients in other kinds of spaces church, meeting room or you know, if they were unable to come to me Occasionally. You know I don't as a rule go to people's homes, but occasionally. You know I don't as a rule go to people's homes but occasionally if I know someone is housebound, you know I'm willing to do that. But I mean really kind of having this kind of comfortable space for people to come into.

Speaker 2: 24:40

That isn't too one way or the other, just kind of neutral, and I mean, when I'm talking to someone, I don't want them thinking about you know, my wall hangings? Or you know, are those the pillows that she told me about that she got in Turkey? I don't want them thinking about those kinds of things. I want them thinking about themselves and focusing on themselves. Four minutes now. I think that I should probably bring it to a close. I shouldn't have them be too long.

Speaker 2: 25:12

But there's another thing that I really wanted to talk about that I think is super important. That comes with working with clients, and that is setting a fee, and this is probably one of the scariest parts of having a practice. Now, I've been on both sides of the fence with this, and my suggestion to you is to sit down and decide what an appropriate hourly wage is for your work. Now, this does not mean you try to make a week's wages off of one client. You only have one client a week. That's ridiculous. That is, then, a part-time job, and you need to be more rational and realistic about that.

Speaker 2: 25:59

Some people implore a sliding scale. I don't. I have in the past. I no longer do. One of the reasons for that is is I felt taken advantage of. Um, I feel that people need to make a choice about what's important. And if, coming to me and seeing me in you know their Mercedes Benz SUV with their you know $200, you know winter boots and you know all this other stuff, but they want to pay me the lowest part on the sliding scale because they don't have any money, that's a fallacy and that really annoys me. So I decided not to offer it anymore because I felt that a lot of the people who maybe could have used the sliding scale really put more value on what I did and they tried their hardest to come up with the top amount they could afford.

Speaker 2: 26:58

And then I felt other people really took advantage of it and then I said forget it, you know I'm not doing this anymore. I don't want to work for people who do not value me. Period. If you don't value me, don't walk in the door, otherwise it's a waste of both of our times. And I know it may sound really kind of harsh. I have no problem with sounding harsh about these kinds of things, because this is true. This is a reality of practice and you need to be really clear. Now I'm very fortunate because then I can say to myself you know what? I know these people don't really have a lot of money. So I'm going to say, well, today's fee is only this, because I really want you to blah, blah, blah or um, you know, I, I knew a woman who, who would put in, you know, five hours a week volunteering at the animal shelter.

Speaker 2: 27:48

She really didn't have a lot of money, she really loved animals and I knew she really couldn't afford to pay me and she was getting her wallet out. And I said, you know what you know what would be great is how much do you value yourself an hour? And I think she thought it was a trick question and she said, oh, I don't know. You know I make, you know, $7 an hour working at blah blah, blah. And I said, okay, so how about? Today's fee would have been $70. So can you do me a favor in the next year? Can you? Can you put in three extra hours at the at the animal shelter at $20 an hour, and let's just do this in trade, because you know what I can't do, that and that's that's something that I'd feel really good about. And of course she was. Oh, yes, of course, you know, I think that's wonderful and you know, she even brought me her little volunteer log to show me because it was important to her to know, for me to know, that that she did fulfill her end of the bargain.

Speaker 2: 28:44

Now, I don't I don't always do stuff like that um, I usually don't barter. Um, I've had people offer me, you know, uh, eggs every day for a month or something like that, and I'm like there's no way I can eat this many eggs and I'm not really interested in that as a barter. We, you know, as a rule as a family, you know, we don't eat a lot of animal product. And she got really mad because she felt that I didn't value her barter or because it was a barter I should automatically accept. And so having a few experiences like that, you know, has really made me decide that this isn't something that I want to do. I mean, bartering isn't going to necessarily get my car fixed if I have a month's worth of eggs, or it's not going to necessarily pay my you know pellet fuel cost or whatever. So what is important is to make sure that you actually get something out of it and you don't feel bullied into a barter. Um, because sometimes that happens and I talked to lots of practitioners who say, yeah, you know, yeah, they barter and I didn't really, you know, and I'm like, why are you doing this to yourself? You know this isn't something that you need to do yourself.

Speaker 2: 29:56

So come up with a come up with a fee structure structure. Come up with an amount of money you feel comfortable at. I think that every herbalist should charge around twenty dollars an hour as as a baseline. Now, if you're doing an initial intake, you should have a set price for that. If they're coming in for follow-up, then they pay twenty to fifty dollars for that follow-up appointment. I think it's very simple, because what is not included in that time that's face-to-face is the lookup time and the paperwork. And so you know, try to be fair. If the paperwork only takes you 20, 30 minutes, then you know, don't charge them the full hour. But you know, kind of, come up with mentally this fee structure that says, on average, I do this and then go from there. I do not.

Speaker 2: 30:44

I think that if an herbalist was able to work 40 hours a week at $20 an hour, that's $40,000 a year and that's a pretty decent salary for an herbalist. So I think that if you can come up with some kind of honest work assessment. Of course, if you feel in your normal life you're worth more than $20 an hour, then you know and you have the client base to support that. I think you should go for it 100%. But please do not ever let me hear you say in my other job I only work in a convenience store, I only make $7 an hour. Do not let that limit you in how you set your herbal work fee structure. It's a completely different job and what you do in your other life does not reflect on what you do in your herbal life.

Speaker 2: 31:40

As far as employment, I have had students literally from every social, economic and racial background and everybody has a different perspective on this, and some of it's where they came from, some of it's where they're going and some of it's just I can't afford that. But that is really really not something that you should be considering. You shouldn't be considering these things. You're a professional and you need to set a professional fee structure. You need to not be taken advantage of. You need to not work your fingers to the bone for a very small amount of money.

Speaker 2: 32:15

I am not one that advocates that at all. I really strongly believe when it comes to setting a fee. You need to say I am taking myself from my family, from other gainful employment. Potentially, I need to be able to do this with this money and come up with a way that works for you. You know, I always say to people when, when they want me to come and lecture someplace or or whatever you know, I always say to them you know, I'm not cheap, I, you know, I, you're taking me away from my family. I've got travel costs. This is not going to be some you know. Oh, we're going to pay her $30 for the day and she's going to provide all the other costs. I just don't even consider those options anymore.

Speaker 2: 33:05

You know, at one point it was important to help advance my career, but at this point there are too many other things in my life that I love and enjoy for them to suffer because I am doing herbal work. So really, you know, think about that and think about you know, I was recently talking to a woman who was setting up a school and I was just flabbergasted at the amount of money that she was charging and I said you really need to talk to your family about this, because this is really, you really need to reassess your value Because this is valuable work. You are of value 100% and there's no reason why, at the end of the day, you know, if you do a weekend workshop or if you do an all-day class, that you're making three bucks an hour, after your expenses and your travel time. Please do not do that to yourself, because you know what that does, that takes from your family and that makes your work a negative. It makes your family pay the price of your work.

Speaker 2: 34:18

You know, whenever I would teach a weekend or a week-long event, you better believe I made sure that I had extra money for fun things for the kids and my husband to do. Money for takeaway, if they needed to get takeout. You know, one night for dinner. Money for, you know, my husband. He's two ways when it comes to cooking. He's I need something easy we're having peanut butter and jellies for dinner or he needs, like you know, $150 to buy all these exotic things to try some new recipe that he read about. So I needed to, you know, have something in the budget for I have all this time alone with my kids. We're going to make, you know, indian or blah, blah, blah, and I want to do it authentic and get all the different kinds of rice and the different beans and the different veggies you know, and and have some kind of thing you know built in for that.

Speaker 2: 35:09

You know I always, I always, um, you know, tell, tell people that are going into teaching to make sure that if they're going to be gone to an event overnight that they they try to have something stashed aside so the family can do something special. You know, when I first started out, you know, I used to always joke with my husband if all I, all I want to be able to do is pay for, you know, us to be able to go out to dinner once or twice a month, as you know, as a couple. And then it was as a family, and then it became I want to, you know, I want to be able to afford to pay for my own car. I want to be able to do this, you know. You know, and I allowed my goals and aspirations to to then blossom, based on the realities of my practice. But what I didn't want is I didn't want my family to have to suffer through my job because they're losing access to me. And the thing is, I know that if my husband goes out to work. I want him to be making the most he possibly can to be away from me. I'm that selfish he possibly can to be away from me. I'm that selfish so I expect that my family wants the same from me.

Speaker 2: 36:24

And I'm not saying you can't do this in an ethical way that is supportive of your community, but it also needs to be supportive of you. You can't become resentful, you can't try to gouge. You know a few of the rich clients so you know you can feel like you're making enough money. I mean people you know you can feel like you're making enough money. I mean people you know and a lot of this I've heard in the herbal world and talked to people about. And I've been doing this for for about 20 years now and, believe me, I've talked to everyone out there and you know, one of the one of the things for me has always been it was fortunately I learned this lesson very early, because the thing that wounded me the most was being away from my kids when they were little and I said, oh I, there's got to be an exchange for this.

Speaker 2: 37:11

And you know, some people are really into bartering and some people are really into money is bad, but money is the currency of the day and that's what you have to pay me in, because that's what you know you need money. Money, I mean, unfortunately, you know, money makes the world go round and, um, you know, having having someone do something for you that you normally wouldn't have done is actually a deficit, unless it's something that you wanted. So you know, if someone can make slipcovers for my sofa, I would love new slipcovers for my sofa you wanted. So you know, if someone can make slipcovers for my sofa, I would love new slipcovers for my sofa, you know. So you know, really, putting something, something of value into my life, I can definitely, you know, come to grips with.

Speaker 2: 37:54

So really thinking about where you're coming at with money and monetary needs and how much money your family needs from you doing this job, because you know you have to. You really have to think about the exchange, and it's more than just a monetary exchange. It's an emotional exchange. It is payment for services rendered. It is, you know, how you feel about yourself. Also, if you feel that you are draining from your family by doing your work, or I need to buy these supplies and it's coming from the family budget and not my business budget that can hurt your soul.

Speaker 2: 38:34

You don't want to feel like you know, oh well all the kids need new soccer cleats and you know they need new this and they need you know, but I really need this stuff so I can continue my work. You know I mean that's hard and I understand that and, believe me, I've made those same decisions. Or, you know, come out with some new budgeting scheme and you know, shop at the dent can store, I mean. You know, I mean I'm not too proud, but you know I mean really. You know, I mean I'm not, I'm not too proud, but you know I mean really. You know assessing and evaluating these kinds of things so you don't become a drain on your family, so your family really feels that they're behind your practice a hundred percent.

Speaker 2: 39:11

So, anyways, we've talked about quite a few things. I'd wanted to cut this shorter. It's going to be about 40 minutes, so I apologize if you had to sit through this whole thing and listen to me, but I thought, maybe, that this would be some helpful advice. You know, I was walking around this morning it's a beautiful morning in Switzerland and I just really wanted to say to my students that you know, I support you in all that you do and I think that you're amazing and I think that you deserve to be supported by the economy that surrounds you. So this has been a Heart of Herbs Herbal School podcast slash lecture, and you can learn more about Heart of Herbs at wwwheartofherbscom. And I hope you have a wonderful day. Thanks.