Heart of Herbs Herbal School Podcast
Welcome to the Heart of Herbs Herbal School Podcast, with Demetria Clark.
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Heart of Herbs Herbal School Podcast
Blending Herbal Wisdom and Modern Medicine with Victoria Phoenix
What if you could harness the healing power of herbs while supporting your loved ones through life's toughest battles? Join us as we welcome Victoria Phoenix, a dedicated herbalist and Heart of Herbs Herbal School graduate, who embarked on her herbal journey while caring for her mother during cancer treatment. Victoria's story is a testament to the powerful blend of folk herbalism and scientific medicine, showing how these traditions can coexist and enhance each other. Working in Southern Louisiana, she specializes in the safe integration of herbs with pharmaceuticals, highlighting the critical importance of understanding contraindications, and shares how her ongoing nutritional studies have added a rich layer to her practice.
Our conversation illuminates the heart of herbalism, emphasizing the need to be both knowledgeable and compassionate. Victoria shares her experiences at local farmers markets and events, underscoring the value of community engagement and collaboration with experts in related fields such as mycology and Ayurveda. By forming relationships with small-scale farmers and growing protected plants, she shows us how we can nurture a sustainable and interconnected healing community. We explore the enriching diversity of perspectives in herbalism, likening it to varied recipes for making bread, each bringing unique value to the table.
Balancing professional passion with personal life can be a dance, and Victoria offers heartfelt insights into this balance. From self-care routines to the unexpected joys of writing and publishing, she paints a vivid picture of the challenges and rewards of her journey. Victoria’s anecdotes, from humorous tales of life in gator country to the profound joy of having a baby named after her, highlight the deep connections and community bonds that make her practice so fulfilling. This episode is a treasure trove of practical advice, personal stories, and genuine wisdom, perfect for anyone eager to deepen their understanding of herbalism and community-driven healing.
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Hi, this is Demetra Clark, the director of Heart of Herbs Herbal School, and today, on the Heart of Herbs Herbal School podcast, we're speaking to Victoria Phoenix. Victoria is a graduate of Heart of Herbs and she's also doing all kinds of really cool connection work out in the herbal in the healing world, and so I want to welcome Victoria to our podcast today. Welcome.
Speaker 2:Victoria. Thank you, Demetria. I appreciate that I'm so happy to be here with you.
Speaker 1:Oh well, thank you, we appreciate it. We love to hear from graduates about what they're doing, so I'm going to ask you a few questions about like what they're doing. So I'm going to ask you a few questions about like you know what got you to where you are today, so what originally drew you to herbalism as a path?
Speaker 2:I was drawn to herbalism. I walked the cancer path with my mother in high school and I saw how Western medicine works. And although I do think that Western medicine certainly has its place in the healing world, I felt that there could be more to healing and perhaps more preventative ways to keep our body in alignment with health throughout our life. So when I found out about herbalism, I found your school, and that's when I started signing up for certifications.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's cool. Well, it's not cool how you originally got introduced to herbalism. It's cool that you decided to study with us, and I always really appreciate that. But walking the path with someone who has cancer I know I've done this a few times myself with people that I love it's really hard work, and you almost have to learn a new language. So then bringing the herbal world language into it also must have been really challenging. So I really applaud you for taking that on and navigating those two worlds with your mother. Thank, you.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:So what is one of the major aspects of herbalism that resonates with you the most or that you feel like really connects you with your work in a way that you didn't expect?
Speaker 2:really connects you with your work in a way that you didn't expect. So even though I started off in really folk herbalism, through my education I became rooted in the scientific aspect of it and that was surprising to me. To really learn how you know the chemical constituents of herbs work with the chemistry of the human body and the learning it was. It's really like a puzzle, um, and just learning how everything connected and um, yeah it. I feel like I'm always a student of that and you know we'll always be learning about that well, I agree with you.
Speaker 1:I always feel like there's something you. I always learn stuff from students as they're going through or they help me adjust my perspective. So do you find that when you're working with clients, that you enjoy the clients that um challenge you and make you think about herbalism in a different way? Or or are you just over that?
Speaker 2:So, honestly, I do what I specialize in with a lot of people because I live here in the South, in South Louisiana, and most people are on pharmaceuticals. So through my clinical master herbalist certification that I took through Heart of Herbs, I learned the importance of finding like contraindications and drug and herbal interactions. So I feel like I find that that's a lot of the work that I do to help people be safe whenever they're taking herbs, which is probably one of the most challenging aspects of it, because there's a lot of research that's involved with that.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, definitely definitely.
Speaker 2:And it's.
Speaker 1:I mean Southern Louisiana. There's, um, I mean, there's so many cool plants that you come into contact with, but also there's so many cool ways that you can include herbs and things like food and just the diet there the spices in Louisiana just lends itself to like creating the most healing foods. Do you ever find that you are helping people with herbs through their diet and tweaking recipes to give them, you know, more nourishing? Like I live in the South and so, like you know, I'm always talking to people about like, yeah, when you do your greens, like add more dandelion or add more chickweed, or you know, I like to bring the herbs into some of our regional recipes Do you find that you do that?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I chickweed and cleavers and things like that Dandelion things that we find commonly outside just growing in the wild dandelion things that we find commonly outside just growing in the wild. You know, I really encourage people to make broths and things like that for their soup, so it's like they have a stock ready that has medicinal benefits in it. Actually, I'm almost done with a nutrition degree from Sierra College and so nutrition is definitely part of my studies and you know, going to school for nutrition and having to take, you know, anatomy and physiology really expanded my understanding of how herbs work with the body. So I'm glad I'm doing that because it helps fill in those spaces that I wasn't really aware of. You know every how everything worked, so yeah, that's really cool.
Speaker 1:I didn't know you were adding nutrition to your your vast portfolio portfolio. We'll talk about that a little bit more. But what is one of the? I mean, are you having a lot of fun working with nutritional herbs now that you have, like a different perspective from your nutritional program, and are you constantly like thinking about new ways? That I know. When I went and did some of my nutrition studies.
Speaker 1:I was like oh my gosh, I can totally tweak everything around me now, Like I'm putting stuff in baby food for the kids and like you know, all kinds of fun stuff.
Speaker 2:Well, it's interesting because, going to nutrition school, you have access to the dietitian records for, like, how they categorize food and things like that.
Speaker 2:And what I noticed is that I was adding a lot to the library of information because there is a lot of information missing about natural, like plants being nutritious, growing in the area.
Speaker 2:So that was kind of a fun challenge that I gave myself to help add in things to kind of normalize the use, and so, if you know, a nutritionist was on the database and wanted to look up a plant, you know if the more we add, the more information becomes common knowledge, you know. So, yeah, as far as including nutrition and nutritious herbs, I do help people a little bit with their diets when I do consults, but I mainly focus on making medicine through the form of extracts and tinctures and also skincare, and I'm also I have I'm a mother of three children, so I've made my children's medicine since they were born and for the most part, kept them out of the doctor's office because of that, and I enjoy working with mothers who want to know a more natural way to help heal their children. I really enjoy, you know, making extracts and talking to people about how those work.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, that's awesome. So tell us about your business and where people can find you and the type of products that you sell, and maybe, like, just tell us a little bit about some of your more popular products too, if you don't mind.
Speaker 2:Oh sure, so I own Sunflower Alchemy. I, like I said, I make extractsures that I feel like is really, um, a lot of people can, uh, benefit from. It is cat's claw bark, which is a vine that is native to Peru. They call it cat's claw bark because it has thorns that look like cat's claws on there, but, um, it's a very powerful antiviral. Um, you know, the physician's desk referencebal Medicines is a really great book, because we have scientifically backed studies in that book and one of the things that that book talks about is how HIV patients have had success with cat's claw bark, how it stimulates the lymphatic system to produce macrophages, which are the cells that eat cancer cells in the body.
Speaker 2:So it goes after things like lymphoma. It's been proven to be beneficial against breast cancer and also tumors in the brain, and it's also a very powerful antiviral as well. So anyone who has like gout or arthritis or any inflammation in the joints and things like that, it helps to lessen the stiffness in the joints and kind of break down those crystals that form in those joints so that we can move more fluidly. And yeah, I really that's one of my favorite tinctures that I work with. Another tincture that I like to make for children especially. I call it my calm and focus blend. It has chamomile and oats and lemon balm in it, and it's a really great alternative for children who struggle with like ADHD or ADD tendencies, calm them and ground them while also toning their digestive system and also keeping them healthy while they're in a school environment, because we have antiviral properties and antimicrobial properties in that as well, and I've heard a lot of good feedback from mothers on how that tincture works.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those are great herbs for kids. It's almost like I always when I think about like working with herbs with children, I always think of like filling in what's missing, not that there's something wrong with their body, you know what I mean. Like it's like kids are. I always kind of view kids as like being born perfect. You're perfect just the way you are Right. But sometimes environmental factors, lifestyle, you know, some kids have, you know, deficiencies or they're differently abled, and it doesn't mean they're not perfect, it just means there's things that we can do to help them out. And I love that. How herbs kind of fill in those gaps so well for little kids.
Speaker 1:It's like, um, it I almost, like I used to, almost like I would almost say to my kids hey, you know what, everyone's coming down with a cold. We're gonna do whatever tea or something. And like their bodies would start to respond to the threat of the tea before they even had to drink it. You know like it would be like, oh, the tea's coming start, you know, let's start our little immune systems. Like mama's going to give us this stuff. And I had one kid who would was okay with taking anything and the other kid I'd have to be like just pound it, just pound it, get it in your system, get it over with. But it was almost like their, their bodies, when they're exposed to herbs. I almost feel like they. They start to know how to adapt before the herb even comes in. So it kind of opens up where the puzzle piece needs to go.
Speaker 2:Do you?
Speaker 1:feel that way sometimes with kids, Cause I know you work a lot with with young families.
Speaker 2:I do for sure, and even you know, on that note, like sometimes I'll do like a little herb walk or something like that, and you know you see the children interact with plants and you can, you can see an exchange right then you know, um, how it kind of captivates them. It's also almost like whenever the plant medicine or you know gets in their aura, it's like a vibrational shift occurs. You know, which is really cool to watch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like there's definitely like an energy exchange with children. It's almost like I'm just going to sound goofy but, it's almost like the earth is like breastfeeding kids.
Speaker 1:They just kind of like just being in proximity to, like when a baby is just in the proximity of their, their breastfeeding parent, right, right, and they're exposed to something the milk is already starting to adapt. And I kind of feel like plants and the earth kind of have that relationship with kids, to kind of that connection that as adults we just lose unless we work really hard to maintain it or make a focused, you know we focus on how do we maintain this, this cyclical relationship between us and the planet? And I just feel like kids are like, you know, let us get dirty, let us roll around in the plants and we're going to be okay.
Speaker 2:I love that. Yes, for sure. I think that a lot of children, you know, they're much more open. We get programmed, you know, the more that we grow up and, like you said, as an adult it was, I had to kind of rediscover myself and my connection with the earth to be able to really, you know, understand herbalism. It wasn't just studying the science of it or whatever. It was really, you know, a full, a well-rounded, you know, connection that had different facets of how I needed to change the way I thought to be able to fully connect with plant medicine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I definitely, I definitely get that. Yeah, no, I definitely, I definitely get that. So when you say that you, you know you can feel the or see the or sense the auric kind of shift around kids when they're with plants, I'm like I get it, I totally get it, I love it, I love it. So where can people find your products?
Speaker 2:so, um, I have an Instagram it's called sunflower underscore alchemy, and I'm also on Facebook as Victoria Phoenix and um, I'm working on a website right now. It's not quite done yet, but, um, I do have a menu that I offer people once we connect through messenger and email and things like that.
Speaker 1:So, oh, that's awesome. And when? So when you have your website, let us know so we can go back and edit the show bio, so it'll be in there for everyone who listens to you later and they'll be able to find you.
Speaker 2:Awesome, I will definitely do that.
Speaker 1:Thank you, yeah, so you've studied at a lot of different places. So where, where did you study herbalism? I mean, I know you studied heart of herbs. What drew you to a heart of herbs initially?
Speaker 2:Well, I always say that Rosemary Gladstar is the grandmother of modern day herbalism, and so, of course, that was my first book, which I believe she was your, one of your teachers, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:I adore her. She's a great human being. For me, being a good herbalist is important. I also want you to be like a decent human being. So she definitely takes both of those boxes, because I'm not a very good fan girl, you know like. I'm not someone who's like, oh, I'm just not like that, right, I don't know what's wrong with me, I just missed that thing. But she's definitely a person that I can look at and say decent human being, excellent herbalist, and those are two things that are so important to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's where I started was with one of her books, and I can definitely say that um of her books.
Speaker 2:And I can definitely say that reading books has made me rooted in being an herbalist.
Speaker 2:Like I just can't express how important it is and having all those herbal books on your bookshelf, because you might not be able to remember every single thing that you read, but you know where it is in that book. So through years of going back to reference, you know your brain starts to kind of memorize what you've read many times. So then whenever you start working with other people I work with a few men, but I mostly work with women it seems like women are a lot more drawn to herbalism and that's kind of just who comes through the floodgates for me, for me, and so when I work with them and I'm able to reference the information from books that I read, it really it helps me to connect with them and it kind of comes out in a clear way because it's published and I feel like, because books are published, it's a much more dependable resource of information for herbs versus just Googling everything you know. So I highly recommend reading those books and building up your herbal library. It's very important.
Speaker 1:Oh, I completely agree about you know. I mean, my herbal bookshelf is nine or ten feet tall I'm looking at it right now and about five feet wide, like just, and that's just the books I have in my office, and it's like sometimes it's not even the act of necessarily reading them, it's knowing that they're there, it's like a nice warm blanket, you know, like, okay, they're there. If I need them, they're there.
Speaker 1:Or if I just sometimes I just want to like open one and like read what so-and-so says about this issue, and even if it's not the same perspective that I have or I would never use those herbs, it's. It's so good to see the different types of herbalism and the different paths that herbalists take, because I think sometimes we get so focused on no, it's this herb for this, and it's only practice herbalism this way and you can, only you know, and it's like no, no, no. It's like it would be like saying there's only one way to make a loaf of bread. Right, you know, I, and so I think it's it's. I think it's awesome that you have books at your disposal and that you really feel that they're an important part of your educational and connection process with clients, because you do a lot of connection work in your community too, right, yes, I do.
Speaker 2:I love working with my community. And just a little tip of how to tap into your community I would recommend going to local markets and going to your local farmers markets. I have met so many people that I have started business relationships with who I met at a market. You know I have a nice apothecary in my opinion but I don't have the time to. You know, extract mushroom medicine, or really, you know it can become a very the dual extraction. You know it can become a very scientific process and I work with myocentrics in Baton Rouge. Her name is Jordan Gross. She graduated from LSU, she is an agricultural and biological engineer and her mushroom medicine is in my apothecary. Because I know that it's too much for me to try to do everything and I need to be out to my community to kind of fill those holes that I can find in my apothecary.
Speaker 2:And not only have I gone to markets, I've also put on events. I just did an event in April at a place called the Nola Castle that's in New Orleans, and I had my friend Dr Effie Br Branton, who studied Ayurveda in India. She came in and taught a workshop to people about the introduction to Ayurveda. And then my friend Jordan of Mycocentrics, who I just commented about. She taught a mushroom class on foraging and how the medicinal properties work. So it can really become a multifaceted thing where not only are people coming to a place where they can find natural remedies, and things like that, but we can also hold space for people to learn and expand their knowledge, which I feel like is really important.
Speaker 1:Oh, definitely, I think that farmers are the coolest like farmers, markets. I love them, just love the vibe, the feeling of them. Being married to a farmer myself, I definitely think that connecting with farming is incredible. And now, so when I say farmer, I should clarify that my husband is a small scale farmer we're not producing like anything really big scale but the connection with the community is amazing and I do agree it's a great place to make those really necessary local threads that hold and bind us all together and make us a community, especially when it comes to healing, because farmers are always looking for value added crops, even small scale.
Speaker 1:And so, as an herbalist, if you're like, hey, I'm really looking for a farmer who wants to do like a five year like commitment with me on growing some of these more protected plants. There's farmers out there who have a few acres that can't be used for traditional crops and that they may be really interested, especially if they're organic farmers or permaculture. They may really be interested in helping farmers, helping herbalists excuse me, you know connect with with growing some of these more protected plants in the United States. So we protect the natural environment and you know we can still have a stock of them. So I just love that you brought up the connection with with farmers and farmers markets and I would love to. So where do people learn about your retreats?
Speaker 2:So I work for a company called Cornerstone Counseling. They have a website. It's Cornerstone Counseling, and I just did a retreat in Louisiana. I'll be traveling to Costa Rica in October with them and I'll be doing an herbal workshop. I also practice sound therapy. I play the gong and bowls from Nepal, and so it's a very multifaceted set of tools, that is, that are being, you know, made available for people to learn about how to naturally heal their bodies in many different ways, you know.
Speaker 1:I love that, so it's cornerstonecounselingcom.
Speaker 2:Um, I can send you the link after. Okay, that's great.
Speaker 1:That's great Because I would really love people to be able to, you know, sign up for your retreats if they want to. So, where do you find that you get the most encouragement as an herbalist?
Speaker 2:the most encouragement. As an herbalist, I feel like whenever, you know, when my children were I have a six month old, but whenever my so I'm nursing, so I don't really have to worry about giving her glycerins or things like that because my immune system takes care of it. But watching my children respond to herbal glycerin and watching it work and watching you know something that could have been a much longer sickness disappear in a couple of days was very encouraging to me. I've helped quite a few women who were having fertility issues have babies through, you know, herbs that balance the hormone and also like vaginal steaming and things like that and changes to the diet and working on their liver, you know, because we have to balance our liver before, you know, our hormones can really come into balance. So watching these women who before were having a lot of issues getting pregnant and then we got I got them on a regimen and then they they got pregnant and then they had a healthy baby, I mean that's that was pretty encouraging.
Speaker 1:I'd say yeah, I would say that too. That's pretty awesome. I love that. I remember the first time I found out that someone I had helped with some fertility stuff had named their, their baby after me, and I thought that was so cool. They didn't tell me. Someone else told me like, oh, by the way, they said they named their baby and I was just like, oh, my gosh, there's two of us out there. So I think it is really cool when we can help people, you know, become families and yeah, that's really beautiful. So, wow, you do a lot of stuff, you are a community resource. Definitely Like, how cool is that?
Speaker 2:And I wanted to mention also another way to tap into you know your community is. If you to tap into you know your community is if you, you know, go to a shop and maybe they have like a nice amount of herbs and um, and you're an herbalist or you're just starting out in herbalism, connect with those shop owners, you know, um, it's not us versus them, it really takes everyone connecting and no one's going to have your edge. And one of the things that I will always remember, when I took my certification with you, one of the things you said in one of your lectures was keep your head in your own game. And I have repeated that to myself countless times. You know it's not. We don't have to get jealous.
Speaker 2:You know, like, there's these beautiful women that work in an apothecary called Soul Roots here in Baton Rouge and I connected with them and you know now my medicine is available at their store and we do ask an herbalist day and I'll be there for five hours, or ask a certified aromatherapist day and I'll go there and do personalized blends for people and stuff like that. So you can really want, if you connect with people who maybe are a little bit, you know, further along in the success of their business. You can help each other. It doesn't have to be us versus them, you know. So I think that's important.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that you brought that up. That's always been. That's always been an interesting thing in relation to business and and business development. And a lot of people come to herbalism saying they want a business, but then they're like, oh, but I I don't know if I want to be in business, you know. And then they, and then they'll get worried and they're like I'm checking their, their website, they added this product and this product. And I'm like whoa, slow down, like why do you care? And they're like what?
Speaker 1:You know, because we do. We do have the ability to access so much of our quote competitors information all the time. So it's really easy to spend five hours worrying about what someone else is doing instead of being like, hey, what is it that we're doing? What are we bringing to the table? And I always think it's funny because people be like, well, how does your course compare to someone else's? And I'm like I have no idea and I feel bad.
Speaker 1:I feel like I'm not doing my due diligence because I should know, but I don like I have no idea and I feel bad. I feel like I'm not doing my due diligence because I should know, but I don't. I don't because I think we spend so much time in our culture worrying about what other people are doing that we just don't spend enough time on ourselves. And when we really want to connect with people and we really want to promote healing right, that is probably not where we want to be focused is on other people. We want to promote healing right. That is probably not where we want to be focused is on other people. We want to be focused on the person who's in front of us and the person who needs us. So I'm really glad that you brought that up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you know everyone. There's so many people out there who are looking for alternative forms of healing, you know, and we have just this wealth of knowledge at our fingertips with our phones and things like that now. So, being alternative in you know your practices of medicine and things like that, and what you take isn't so taboo these days or you know so left field it's becoming. You know you go to the store to buy a bag of coffee and there's mushroom coffee there. You know which is. You know in medicinal, has medicinal mushrooms in it, although we know that extracts are, you know, really more of a potent medicine than you know you're not sure the quality of. You know the dried mushrooms in the coffee or something like that, but that's how much it's out there. You know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can. You know, you can get. You know, I guess I guess how to say it you can get your. You can get your herbal stuff at Walmart if you want it. You know what I mean. Like it's like at every box store now. There's brands, and's really exciting, but there are potential quality issues. I'm glad that you brought that up. I always try to source where everything came from, and so I never trust someone who says to me everything that we have is only here, and you know, we grow everything in Idaho. And I'm like that's not possible. You don't have greenhouses. There's no way that you're growing some South American herb in Idaho or whatever. And I'm like that's not possible. You don't have greenhouses. There's no way that you're growing some South American herb in Idaho, or whatever, and I'm just saying Idaho, I'm just throwing it out there, I'm not talking about any specific business.
Speaker 1:So I think it's good that people learn how to source where things come from, and just because we have access doesn't mean it's always the best, but I think it is inspiring because maybe, if your budget or knowledge base wasn't going to get you into herbs right away, being able to access these things in other ways and new ways.
Speaker 1:I think, is where the seed is planted for a lot of people. So they're like they get the, they get the mushroom coffee, and they're like, oh, this is great, I'm feeling some effect. And then they're like, well, I heard this brand's better, so I'm going to try this brand. And then, well wait, I was looking it up and I found out this kind of extract is, but you know, and then it's like it just starts this domino effect. So I'm really happy you brought that up, because I think that's such an important point.
Speaker 2:And you know, just to kind of continue on with that conversation, but a little bit of a shift in aromatherapy. You know, whenever I took my aromatherapy certification at Heart of Herbs, I learned the importance of, you know, buying organic essential oils and that therapeutic grade isn't really a thing, you know. They kind of made that up and you know if someone's trying to tell you to ingest these essential oils, they're really trying probably to make a sale versus actually help with healing, because we know it's not safe to ingest essential oils internally. So there's, you know there is things that you have to watch out for in marketing. Even though it's great the information is getting out there, it's we definitely research is essential, you know.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, definitely, and I know I'm going to say this and people make it annoying, but I've been saying this for over 20 something years. You know, mlms are not where it's at. It's a way that actually a lot of people, especially in aromatherapy, come to us for education because they're they're selling MLM products and they're finding that they don't have enough information or that they accidentally like burnt somebody or, you know, like whatever their their thing is and, um, you know, just learning how to source your own ingredients or do the research on how to find a safe and good product that you can afford is so much better than getting yourself involved in some kind of thing where you're making everyone in your family run away from you when they see you coming because you want to sell them something and I, you know it. It is really, it is really scary, but I'm probably going to get all the MLM people mad at me, so I should shut up.
Speaker 2:Well, it's funny how you say.
Speaker 2:You know, I feel like a lot in the beginning of herbalism.
Speaker 2:I made a lot of medicine for free, you know, and I kind of over offered like oh, someone might say they have an ailment, and I would kind of try to butt in and say this about herbs or, you know like make them something without them really asking, and I always was met with some sort of like energetic resistance. You know, like it didn't really feel like a natural flow. And whenever I took a step back and I finally finished all of my certifications and my schooling through Heart of Herbs and I started to get booths at markets and things like that and allowed the space for people to come to me, I stopped feeling resistance. It felt like such a more you know natural flow. So it's like sometimes it can be kind of scary to put yourself out there and you know, rent a booth but usually they're like 25 or 30 bucks. You know what do you have to lose? And you'll actually be amazed at how eager people are to learn about natural ways in which they can help their body.
Speaker 1:Oh, definitely, I think booths are. Booths are, you know the cost of, you know, a nice dinner out with your partner or you know friends, it's like, okay, so make that you can. You can find a way to make the commitment for, in a lot of situations, to get a booth for an event, and you know, booth setup doesn't have to be expensive. Get creative, do multi-levels, you know, have some fun, you know, and give people an opportunity to come and sit and talk with you. And you're going to find that, even if those people don't necessarily connect with you in a way where they become a client or a customer, someone that they know will, because they're going to talk about you and they're going to talk about their experience with you, only working online and only being an online presence. That I think we're so oversaturated that people are craving like real human connection, and the booth is going to give you that more than anything else, right?
Speaker 2:for sure. Yes, and also, you know, having my certifications framed on my booth, people are like oh yeah, this is the lady right here. I'm like what's up, let's do this. Oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I really think that building community in person is important. You know, and people do like you said. They're craving that human connection and I feel like I mean we all do, you know. So I feel like that is important to be able to show up in community and even though it might make you a little nervous, uh, before you do it, you'll be really happy that you did afterwards, you know.
Speaker 1:So yeah, no, I agree, I often, um, uh, you know I'll I'll like totally psych myself out. I get so nervous. I really really have horrible, horrible, like stage fright and it's just funny. But once I start I'm okay, like once the first person comes and ask something and I have an answer for it or I don't, and I tell them where to go find the answer then I'm like, oh, it's okay.
Speaker 1:So it's like you can get over, you know it's just like. It's just, you know, like going to you know an event the first time and so do you participate in, like your local chamber of commerce or anything like that or, you know, to help promote your business. You know being out in the world, or do you do you find that other things work better for you?
Speaker 2:You know I'm not really a political individual. I don't really try to get involved in groups so much. I do work with some people who are business owners, but I kind of like to keep it on that level. I feel like I know my limits right now. As a mother of three, I don't want to put too much on my plate. Maybe one day I could expand that and I'm open to doing that, but for right now I'm pretty content with the amount of workload that I have.
Speaker 1:So fair enough, right? I mean, we all have our limits, and the thing is, is that if we're, if it's so, if we're telling people to take care of themselves, right, and then we don't ever stop, right? You know that's not, that's not a good place to be. Sometimes you just need to roll down the hill, you know, and have a good time, or go swimming in the middle of the day, or, you know, drive your car a little bit too fast on a mountain road you know, whatever your jam is, you know, sometimes you just need to do it yeah yeah, well, you probably definitely aren't just like jumping in the water in the middle of the day because you guys have gators.
Speaker 2:I heard you're running a zigzag and uh, throws them off a little bit. That's what they told me when I was a kid, anyway.
Speaker 1:So I, you know, when we lived in Florida we lived um on an island and so that's the running joke in the family was you didn't have to outrun the gator, you just had to outrun mom. So the kids thought that one was pretty funny. But but I read to just run as fast as you can in a straight line oh, did you?
Speaker 2:okay?
Speaker 1:yeah, so that's what I heard, because they they have like a burst of like 30 mile an hour action and I know I'm gonna run faster in a straight line than this.
Speaker 2:I'll probably trip in my dance go clogs or something you know but uh, yeah, okay no, no gators on that, because that was some 90s wisdom right there, so we're gonna update that too yeah, but I would definitely maybe use the google because I could be wrong.
Speaker 1:But uh, no, I mean, uh, where you live is just so beautiful. I'm definitely I love that part of the country. I I just I love. It's funny because I think I love every place that I see, but there's very few places that I'd want to stay for a long term, and that's one of the places in the country where, if my family was nearby, I would definitely put on my list. I know my husband loves that part of the country and so you definitely are surrounded by some of the best beauty in the nation. So I will say I'm a little jelly.
Speaker 2:The food. You can't beat it anywhere. You know I lived in California and ate for eight years and actually lived there when I took your programs and I lived in Arizona and you know you just really you can't beat the food here. It's delicious.
Speaker 1:No, you can't, you really can't. And the music. So I mean I love, I love Zydeco and bluegrass and Cajun music. So I definitely Americana. I love the music down there too. So that's always fun. But wow, you just uh, you just do so much in your community and so much connection work and offering the retreats and having a business. What do you do to relax?
Speaker 2:You know, uh, I like to write. I do write to relax. I like to read like fiction to relax because I feel like I find myself so often reading like scientific information that it's like nice to unplug and bring myself kind of to a different space.
Speaker 1:I hear you. I do that. I'm so bad. I'm like the cozy mystery queen. I used to read like more intense mysteries and then I got to a certain age and I was like, just tell me that the cat did it. So I hear you about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I um speaking of writing, you know, whenever I was um a student at your school, we are part of uh, finishing the certifications. There is writing student articles, and I remember I wrote one called Mothering with Herbs, and Demetria published that on the website and that was the first time that you know anything I wrote had, you know, been on a public platform and I was just so excited and that built confidence, that encouraged me and then, you know, I started following um this really wonderful organization called herbalists without borders and they love them.
Speaker 2:Yes, they've recently started. Um, I believe it's a quarterly magazine and uh, so I saw their requests for submissions and so I went through what the different it wasn't. It was a different article. This one was about. I did one for tapping into the diversity of starting, of seed starting, but it was the herbal connection to soil fertility.
Speaker 2:That was the first article that I submitted to them. I did rewrite it quite a bit because it had been a few years since I had written it and my knowledge had expanded. So I did redo the article. But I thought it was really cool that Heart of Herbs kind of gave me that footwork like hey, hey, you know you are capable of writing an article and you should believe in yourself and really go for it, even though you're not an English major or didn't go to school for writing articles. You know it's like if you can kind of just carve out that space for yourself and believe in yourself, it's really incredible the diversity of what we can accomplish, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think part of the thing, the reason why we have some of those activities is I really strongly believe that herbalism is. As an herbalist, you often are taken out of your comfort zone and a lot of people have major blocks about communicating through writing. And I think that it's so powerful when I see the student articles, because just the breadth of what students write about, I mean like you know you're talking to.
Speaker 1:You're talking talking about soil, fertility and the connection to herbalism and parenting. I mean, those are like you know herbs, for you know parents, and they're two massively different places, but herbs is what connects them all, and writing about that and sharing that information, I think it's just so vital and so important because I think it's people need to understand that I mean and that's one of the reasons why I have the podcast is that herbalism is just like you. You don't have to conform to herbalism. Herbalism will fit into your space, your life, just the way you are. You don't have to change anything. You don't have to suddenly wear wool socks and Birkenstocks or anything like that. You can. You can be whoever you want to be and still be an herbalist, and I love that. You you shared that the writing was was good for you that way and I really appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. Um, it was definitely very encouraging. I mean I I know I said it a few moments ago, but when I saw Mothering with Herbs published on the school website, I was just like, girl, you better start believing in yourself. You can do things, you know, and I feel like part of herbs gives people an opportunity to really discover the vastness of what they're capable of. And you know, like how diverse your mind can really work. And, um, you know you can turn working in the garden and you know you can be a garden herbalist and do herb walks and talk about how soil fertility is connected to herbalism and what herbs can be used as natural fertilizers, you know, and then you can go in your garden and pick some herbs and dry them out and then make medicine with it. It really is. You know it could take up all of your time if you, if you let it, you know. It's just it's really great.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you so much. I'm totally over here like wiping my eyes and everything. I love that. I love that. Well, I love that you shared that. I really appreciate that. Thank you, because I think sometimes, when you've been doing work for a long time, you forget that you know that sometimes it isn't just work. So I love that and I agree with you, it's.
Speaker 1:You know, we have students from all different walks of life and it doesn't just have to be what you think an herbalist is. And I love when and I'm not sure if this was you, but we've had students who are like, coming to the program, they're like I want to learn about herbalism for this Right, I only am interested in like this aspect of herbalism. And then they're like pivot, pivot, pivot, pivot, pivot. And then they're like oh, this is what I meant to do and I am. You know, this is it. I'm an herbal writer or I'm only in. I'm like I want to be like the world's best tincture maker. And before they were like no, no, I only want to do teas. And I think that's the great thing, because, as you're on your journey, it's totally cool to like pivot and change. And so what are some ways that you've pivoted from your original thoughts of what, what or how you wanted to be as an herbalist, like how did things change for you as you went along your road?
Speaker 2:so, um, you know, at the beginning of my herbal journey, um, I, I am not a one person or one thing kind of person. I really am, aquarius. I really, like you, know many different paths, you know leading and walking each one to see where it's gonna go. So I really started my herbal journey with herbalism. But I signed up for your aromatherapist certification first because I didn't know anything about it, you know, and that interested me. So it's almost that point of like I don't even know anything, so I want to learn. You know, and um, and one way that I've pivoted through being an aromatherapist and an herbalist is kind of learning when to share my information, you know, kind of manifesting the situations where I'm needed, versus kind of trying to say hello, family member, like I heard you have this issue, I'm going to tell you that you need this, or I bought these herbs for you.
Speaker 2:You know, I that's that was a big shift for me was kind of not trying to push what I was learning on other people, but just more like doing my studies and continuing my education and allowing situations to kind of come to me. Allowing situations to kind of come to me, you know, by making myself available, but not like in a forceful or you know, an annoying sort of way, which I was. I was younger, was in my early 20s, and I was really excited about the information. I didn't mean to be pushy because I was just like, wow, there's such an alternative form of natural healing out there, like I feel like people need to know about this. But I feel like the reality is is that people will come to you, you know, once you get rooted in your aromatherapy or herbalism or whatever you know natural healing stance you like to take.
Speaker 1:Yeah, isn't that true? Like the second you stance you like to take? Yeah, that isn't that true. Like the second you, you let go and the door, the door starts to open. It's like people find you, even sometimes in the grocery store, and they just like start talking to you about their whatever, and you're like this is a full store. Why me? People like find you. Or or you're out with your father-in-law and he's like why do these old guys come up to you and just talk about their prostate? And I'm like I don't know, I got that vibe, I guess you know, like because that's happened more than once with him when we've been out, and he's like I just I must have that face Right.
Speaker 1:But I think the thing is, is it's so true, Once you, once you stop looking, you know, and you just, okay, I'm going to buckle down, I'm going to do my stuff. The people find you and they just don't stop finding you. And it's fabulous because you get to meet some of the most interesting people in the world, but it definitely it's a big one to just you know, because you do want to share everything that you learn with the people that you love, because you want to feel it too. And then sometimes you know, sometimes the people that you love are the slowest to come around Right Ask, you know. So I think it's cool that you bring that up because you know I know there's got to be other students out there who feel like my family or are not excited for me, and you know and it's like, ah, that's just family, it's just family.
Speaker 2:You know, don't worry about it, they'll get there you know, I think one important thing that I would like to share as well is that you know, when I was a student at Heart of Herbs Herbal School, demetria offers extensions on finishing your certification, and I asked for extensions for both of my certifications because I have a family and we run a separate business outside of herbalism, you know, and so sometimes I feel like I might hit a wall and I need to put my books down for a month or something like that, because I'm a little burnt out.
Speaker 2:But I encourage everyone to just keep going, because I think that's why you offer extensions, because you understand that life happens and it's really just continuously putting one foot in front of the other, cause there were certainly times where I thought, you know, maybe I'm not cut out for this, maybe I can't accomplish this, you know, and I just pushed myself just a little bit. Once I gave myself time to rest and, you know, I did it and it's, I feel, like that's a common thing. So I would just suggest to all the students just keep going and take breaks, you know?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, I mean you can only get saturated with so much information. Even if you adore what you're learning about or you're like I've been waiting my whole life to learn about this, you can, you know, just overwhelm yourself really easily.
Speaker 1:I think, and this is probably true in your case too I think students who are you know, and this is probably true in your case too I think students who, are you know, want to do really, really well, will sometimes talk themselves out of like it. You know, like well, I'm not going to turn this in if it's not perfect. And I'm not sure if you ever felt like that or or, and I'm always like look, you know, turn it in even if it's not perfect. It's not perfect, we can figure out where, where, what's missing. But I hate, I hate when um students psych themselves out because we don't it at heart of herbs. We don't live in this system of pass fail, like traditional education. And but I think, coming from the traditional education, a lot of students were like I don't want to turn it, it's not perfect. I want.
Speaker 2:You know, I want all a hundred percents. I hear that all the time.
Speaker 1:I want all a hundred percent, so like you can go back and retake it and get your a hundred percent. But let's figure out what's going on before you, or I'm just going to give up because I can't do it.
Speaker 1:And and uh, I'm really glad that you brought that up because it is a and that you can take your time and you can put your children first and your family first, or whatever is going on at the time. If you know, during COVID we had a lot of students who were like I need to take a break. There's all this stuff going on, or my parent is sick, my, my husband is sick, or whatever. I'm like, take, like, take it. You know, absolutely take it. And I think that that's maybe missing from a lot of our world is just being able to take the time and the space for when we, when we just need it. Sometimes we all need a break, right, even if we love what we're learning. We just sometimes need a break. So I'm glad that you brought that up.
Speaker 2:Definitely, and I feel like it's a really great point that she made about, like, the saturation of information, because it is so much. Heart of herbs is so detailed in their curriculum and it is a lot of information. You know, you can go through one section or like a half of a section and it is just so much information. It takes a little bit of time to digest and process that you know. So, yeah, just take breaks and keep going when you can.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that advice, so I think a lot of other students would really appreciate that. So we've kept you for almost an hour now, so I should probably let you go and get back to your life. But I wanted to just say thank you so much for joining us and for sharing and giving such great advice about connecting with community, especially for other herbalists out there. So just thank you for sharing that experience. I think that's really important and I think a lot of people are going to be inspired by that. So thank you.
Speaker 2:You're very welcome and thank you so much for having me. It's been a delight to talk to you today.
Speaker 1:Oh thanks. Oh, one thing real quick when you get that website up and running, let's reconnect and you can give us an update and tell us how things are going.
Speaker 2:Oh, I would love to do that. Thank you, I will Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:You have a great day. All right, you too, thanks.
