Heart of Herbs Herbal School Podcast

Navigating Holistic Healing Through Ancestral Wisdom

• Demetria Clark- Heart of Herbs Herbal School • Season 3 • Episode 6

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This episode explores the intersection of herbalism and mental health recovery with Kelli Hughart, a lifetime herbalist. She shares her journey, the importance of connecting with nature through herbal practices, and how integrative therapies can help those facing complex PTSD.

• Kelly discusses her early influences and family’s herbal traditions
• The importance of local herbalism and ethical sourcing
• Integrative hypnosis as a therapeutic tool
• Complex PTSD and the shortcomings of conventional treatments
• How plant-based therapies can aid mental health recovery
• Encouragement to find expert guidance in health journeys
• Kelly’s upcoming book on herbal therapies and complex PTSD
• Reflection on the significance of sustainable health practices

You can schedule a complimentary call with Kelli to discuss potential healing resources on her website: https://www.mawmawkelli.com/
From Kelli
My website: https://www.mawmawkelli.com/

My group program (which includes the first edition of the book) and the tools of herbs, mind-body medicine etc

https://www.mawmawkelli.com/index.php/ecourse/

Some free and low-cost resources:

https://www.mawmawkelli.com/index.php/products/

and 

https://go.mawmawkelli.com/free-download-KRH

Heart of Herbs Herbal School 
The Heart of Herbs Podcast with Demetria Clark! 🌿 Tune in for herbal wisdom & wellness tips!

Welcome to the Heart of Herbs Herbal School Podcast, www.heartofherbs.com where we explore the world of herbal remedies and natural health solutions. Before we dive into today's episode, If you want to enroll, use code PODCAST to save 20%.

The content provided in this podcast is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease or medical condition. It is always recommended to consult with a qualified healthcare professional

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Speaker 1:

Hi, this is Demetria Clark, the director of Heart of Herbs Herbal School, and today we're talking to Kelly Hugert. Did I say that right?

Speaker 2:

That's right. Kind of sounds like yogurt, yep.

Speaker 1:

Wonderful and Kelly is really one of these people that's a lifetime herbalist. Of these people that's a lifetime herbalist and I say that because her herbal origin story is just part of her life and her upbringing and where she lives, and it's connected. And I don't know how long we've known each other, gosh, it's been a lot of years.

Speaker 2:

I know it's different to say it's been a lot of years. I don't know how many, but it's been a lot yeah.

Speaker 1:

And when I met you, you were an accomplished herbalist and health practitioner back then. So I just I'm so excited to have you on and to talk to you in this way, and so tell us, how did you get started in all of this?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, first of all I want to thank you for your work Because you're educating herbalists out there and aromatherapists and the birth arts and all that thing. So I want to give honor and credit to you Because, especially the green spirit program, if I can put a plug in for you, green Spirit Program, if I can put a plug in for you.

Speaker 1:

Sure.

Speaker 2:

You know, because I had already been making herbal medicine. You know, it's a journey for all of us, you know. But we start out somewhere. But I'd already been doing herbalism and stuff like that. But the Green Spirit Program completely changed my life. I'm actually talking about it in my dissertation, but anyway. So, yes, I want to say first of all to you thank you so much for the work that you're doing and I'm just so grateful for you.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you, that's really cool. You are probably one of the most educated students we've ever worked with, because when someone doesn't stop, that's how we have to describe your educational journey. So how did this connection with herbalism start for you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, my great grandmother was actually an herbalist, so back then they called them granny witches, granny herbalists. You know Appalachian, you know Appalachian born, bred and raised, and so she was actually an herbalist and so I can't tell the whole story here because that was probably about 40 years ago. But about 40 years ago I made my first herbal medicine in the house that I now live in.

Speaker 2:

My grandfather came home from the war and he built his house with his bare hands and I was about 14, you know, teenager. And I was about 14, you know, teenager, and my grandma you're going to laugh at this my grandmother would make us drink yellow root tea. That's what we called it then. Of course we know that's Hydrastis canadensis and that's an at-risk plant, that we know. We only use it now when either we grow it or from ethical you know places. But that's how I got started. She made all of us grandchildren drink it.

Speaker 2:

My grandfather had ulcers so bad and he actually had to crawl to his company truck. He could not even walk and I remember the story really well. It was actually in his chair right here in the living room and he just said I doctored and doctored and doctored for years. That's what he called it. And he said and, and they never helped me. And so he went to catfish man of the woods I don't know if you've ever heard catfish. Anyway, so long story short, that's when I started making my own first herbal medicine was with was yellow root tea, and we drank it.

Speaker 2:

Every time we come into the house you make a drink at that casserole is that funny, what a grandma can make you do I know I'm like, I'm thinking about it now with my grandkids, I'm like on, you know, but you know, that's just the way it was. You know, and my grandfather actually was on the front page of the newspaper one time for growing his gorge. You know they were gardeners and you know they lived through the depression, so they did all the things. Um, now, really, that was probably the only plant that my grandmother worked with. It was her mother. That was the herbalist.

Speaker 2:

But you know, just over time I latched on to it and I don't I think a lot of it was because, um, I I'm a highly sensitive person, um, and that's what my dissertation is on. And so, going through my life crash. Conventional medicine has failed me so many times, but herbalism has always been there. Flower essences has always been there, not only for me but for my child, for my dogs. Those have passed on. My Weimaraner actually lived an extra. She was given six months to live and she lived another two years with quality life because of herbalism.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, it's been a passion of mine, since, and my daughter already. You know my daughter is a natural birther. She's birthed all her kids naturally and she's already made her first medicine. My grandkids already know, I think, my youngest, I think he was two when he made his first herbal medicine of dandelion tincture. So yeah, so it's in our family, it's in our blood and it always has been.

Speaker 1:

I love that. So you and I share an affinity to. I'm going to put on my headphones real quick. For some reason it's giving me an error, so I want to make sure that I don't mean to interrupt you, so let me just it'll help. All right, Can you hear me? Absolutely Okay, cool. So it's telling me that your default microphone has changed.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I know.

Speaker 1:

It's like, oh, like, come on man. So my grandmother is from Buncombe County, virginia oh, okay and you're from West Virginia and I mean, but um there's something special about the women from that area. Like my grandmother was a complete hell on wheels, like total terror.

Speaker 2:

I tell this joke but it's serious. My grandmother, if my grandmother told my papa to get his hind parts home, that's just sort of lingo at the time. To get his hind parts home, you know that's, that's just sort of lingo at the time. He got his hind parts home the getting got done.

Speaker 1:

I just love that. I love that, um, you're from one of my favorite states, like I love West Virginia. If it wasn't so far from my children, that's's probably where I would be. It just reminds me of where I don't know. I just have an affinity and a connection. It's so freaking beautiful.

Speaker 2:

It's beautiful and we can grow so many things and of course, I have acreage in Virginia as well where I grow at-risk plants as well. I got about 61 acres there and but you know we can grow so many things here that you know that are that would grow like in China and like their herbalism. I'm like, well, I can do the same thing here and I've got the plants here and I can walk out my door, literally. I have an herb garden here. I also do aquaponics. I have an herb garden here. I also do aquaponics. I have an aquaponics system in my basement as well, yeah like I'm all in.

Speaker 2:

I had to downsize some of my plants to the point I'm like, all right, we might have to put some of these outside. We've got some of them out on the. But yeah, I, you know, I've had people come in and go where's the furniture? I'm like, look, if I could get rid of all the furniture and have plants, trust me, I wouldn't. Yeah. But you know, my grandmother was the same way. I live in her house now and the whole back porch which is like a sunroom, but we always called it the back porch. She had all her plants out there. So she was. She was a plant person as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, oh, I love that. I love that the affinity and that connection, and I love that you're growing at risk Things that people may think oh, you know, I'll just get it from China. No, let's not get our herbal medicine from overseas. We've had so many issues with adulteration and all kinds of other things. Find a local producer, grow it yourself. I mean, there's huge programs just set up to help people learn how to do that and to keep you know, like I'm always about supporting local economies any, any way that I can, and yeah, and I teach my apprentices, yeah, and I taught my.

Speaker 2:

I used to have nine month apprentices as well and you know, I taught the same thing. I said we don't know when the mail, you know, god forbid can stop or things can happen. And and I taught about adulteration, because I think it's really important that we teach about that and I don't think that everybody knows about that. So that's a passion of mine as well and I and I always started my apprentices out and even my daughter anybody really that I taught with easy things to grow first. You know, start with your mints. They like to take over, but they're so beneficial and depends on how you make them.

Speaker 2:

You can get different benefits from the same plant based on what time it grew, when it grew, when you harvested, would you did a prep, which you know, whether you did a fresh plant tincture, whether you a you're, you know so many different ways. So, yeah, I'm all about grow as much as you can and let your weeds grow. Actually, you're, you'll appreciate this. All you herbal people are going to appreciate this. I actually bought cleats and I sow chickweed and white clover through my entire yard to try to get rid of the grass. With wait, with cleats, yes, cleats yes, oh my gosh, you know they go smart. Yeah, I got them on the bottom of my shoes and my neighbor was like, what are you doing? And I have a grass guy.

Speaker 2:

I'm like well, I'm trying to put you out of business is what I told him, so that I can have my entire yard weeds, weedy plants, things we can, and that's my goal is to completely eradicate. Eradicate grass. It's my mission in life.

Speaker 1:

I want to do some traditional like hedgerows. I'm like really like, yes, of course that's on the list of a million things that we have to do.

Speaker 2:

My list is a million. I need a, I need a crew.

Speaker 1:

I know right, wouldn't that be great Like you know just hey, 15 people drop by and they they somehow get paid an equitable wage. But I love that, so you also. So you have explored so many different modalities and combined them into different systems, and I would love to hear about your wellness practice and what you offer individuals in that, and I'd love to hear more about your dissertation too.

Speaker 2:

So I'm really excited about the dissertation because in the dissertation I'll start there and I'll circle back. But in the dissertation I'm talking about my recovery of complex post-traumatic stress disorder as a highly sensitive person due to intimate partner violence. Conventional medicine completely failed me. I did the quote, unquote, right things. I was a therapy dropout and I said you know what? There's got to be a better way. I had a really, really life altering, life crash moment when I didn't think I was going to make it through this world at all and I said there's got to be a better way. I remember I looked up, I heard the whisper and the whisper said look up. And when I looked up I saw my grandbaby's face in the clouds and I was like, okay, there's got to be a better way and you have the skills and you're going to find it.

Speaker 2:

And so my dissertation is about plant-based therapy, flower essences, adaptogens, herbal nerve vibes, and then also I'm layering in mind body medicine, hypnosis, guided imagery and these types of things, energetic medicine, and I have used that to create my own integrative hypnosis practice. I see clients typically. I do have a group program as well, so I have a group program. That's a low cost. You know, low cost program Because I want to make it affordable for everybody. And then I have free stuff, obviously on my website, on YouTube.

Speaker 1:

So oh you have great content you share lots of really good information with people, yeah, so that's my goal.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, my goal is to share as much free stuff as I can and then do a low cost for those people. And then, of course, working with me privately is obviously, you know, a little bit more of an investment. But in that, in my private practice, you know, I'm going to teach them every tool I can, and if they're interested in herbalism and flower essences, aromatherapy, I'm obviously going to share that. And then I do an intake with them to make sure I'm, you know, giving them the right suggestions based on their constitution and these type things. But I have integrated that based on, you know, just based on collecting all the information for years, and I've found that there are people that come to me for hypnosis who are not interested in, like, plant medicine and that's there's. You know I can teach them breath work and you know I can teach them other tools for, like, anxiety and whatnot. But my people, a lot of them, are drawn to me because I, you know, have worked with herbalism and aromatherapy for like what? 40 years now.

Speaker 1:

Basically yeah, yeah, wow. I can just. I can just imagine the applications for something like this. I mean veterans groups, you know, children who've experienced different kinds of trauma. I mean, like just this integrative approach to trauma is it's funny because, like it makes so much sense. It's just sad that we're so far behind on it. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2:

Like yes, we are probably, I mean you know I was going to say 50 years at least, but, yeah, I think you're about right, I'd say between 30 and 50 years behind. And and the research there are. There is some new peered research coming out on aromatherapy and PTSD, or what we now know for some people to be complex PTSD, because it's not one individual event right, it's a series. So those children who have high ACE scores, like me, or then have chosen, unfortunately, dysfunctional relationships based on their high scores or, you know, other types of trauma, we are finally coming out with peer review research that says it's not just PTSD. Right, this is complex PTSD. This is an ongoing thing and when you have something that's been ongoing for a long time, you can't talk it out.

Speaker 2:

With all due respect, talk therapy, while very valuable and I'm not against therapists and I tell my clients keep your therapist and I have a lovely one and I'm not trying to diss them but it's not a panacea and the body is a whole. We are a whole person, which you know. We learned this in our classes. A heart does not walk into a cardiologist office, right. A lung you know a set of lungs doesn't walk into a phone, right? We need a whole system approach. We need a whole body approach, a holistic approach.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, yeah, wow, no, that's so awesome. I know that, um, I know that we forget. It's so easy in this culture to see an ad oh, this will take away your depression, or whatever, and we're like, okay, that's, and that's a tool. And every therapy is therapy is a tool. What you're doing is tools, and drugs are tools and herbs are tools, and getting someone who knows how to use the tools in the toolbox effectively feels like I don't know very hard.

Speaker 2:

It's very, very very difficult.

Speaker 2:

You might find somebody who knows this one particular area and they may suggest an herb, but they don't have the extensive knowledge to know. Like. Somebody came to me many years ago and they said my therapist suggested kava and I said, well, tell me a little bit more about your situation. I was a martial arts teacher at the time and she told me a little bit about it and I was like, well, well, well, that's contraindicated for you. And she said, oh, it is. Well, that's contraindicated for you. And she said, oh, it is. And I explained to her why and all the things. And she goes, oh, and so we? And again, this is nothing against anybody.

Speaker 2:

I see this with medical doctors. I see medical doctors, therapists, psychotherapists, that are really acting out of their zone of genius on things and recommending things that maybe they read an article on and maybe it is peer reviewed, and that's great. We need peer reviewed evidence, even in herbalism. We love that, yeah, yeah. So I'm not against that. But what they didn't get is the constitution right, the energetics, like the actual, of knowing what's going on, and without that piece of the puzzle, which you and I know, we could be giving them an herb that is going to actually do worse or more harm, and so now then they go away thinking that herbalism doesn't work, or you know Herbalist or a bunch of cuckoo brains.

Speaker 2:

Whatever, they didn't care about what was safe for me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, no, it was funny. Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, no, it was funny. Recently, someone that I love didn't ask me for advice. They trusted some person Dr Google probably and they're like they were taking so much turmeric that their skin was oh my gosh gosh and their eyes were. I was like dude, stop.

Speaker 2:

Well, I probably should have asked you yeah, you probably should have, but maybe there's a little tip there if you do ask, it will not be free. At this point, you, freaking, blew the free advice.

Speaker 1:

you know people, they just sometimes they'll read something and be like yeah, this is it, and sometimes it isn't sometimes it's not, you know.

Speaker 2:

That's the thing that is frustrating. That has been the thing that is frustrating for me. I've had clients that have come to me five, ten years ago and you know, and I said you know this is we can work together. Of course, my prices back then were way cheaper.

Speaker 1:

They, and this is we can work together. Of course my prices back then were way cheaper. Oh, I'm sure they were probably too cheap back then.

Speaker 2:

They were actually too cheap back then anyway, but that's okay. But you know, they would say, well, you know what? And I'd say you know, well, it's going to save you more money to work with someone who's experienced and skilled. And these people will come back to me and this is the part that's so hard for me as a practitioner they will come back to me five years, three years, five years, ten years later and they just spin their wheels, spin their wheels and then they are worse. Especially, I see this with chronic illness people, which I know we all need to have our journeys. I don't want to take away anyone's journey oh yeah, no, no, no, no, I'm getting so I'm not trying to take away anyone's journey, but chronic illness.

Speaker 2:

you know like I specialize in people who have dysautonomia, pots or chronic conditions that are really not getting help with conventional medicine, and they'll spend their wills and they'll spend their money on herbs and they might have a whole cabinet of stuff that's not working. Spend their wills and their spend their money and all that that adds up to working with someone who can help you and you can then move forward and do more of what you love in your life oh yeah, I always look.

Speaker 1:

This is something that I tell people all the time is you know, uh, pay the expert, exactly I do, I'm not trying to install a toilet. I don't know how to do that. I'm going to pay someone to do that. Well, I've actually done that.

Speaker 2:

Well, I've helped, but you know what I mean.

Speaker 1:

But I mean the reality is, is that we have such this thing that there's so much more value in trying to do it ourself. Much more value and trying to do it ourself. And yeah, there isn't some things, especially if it's stuff that you enjoy and you like, but sometimes I'm like, and if it's your zone of genius, obviously. I'm gonna blend.

Speaker 2:

My own herbal remedies like yeah, yeah, you know, I have a pop the carry in my basement that at last count, was over a thousand jars and there's stuff sitting on the floor at this point. But you know, and I've got a whole library and I have a lending library, you have to come and sit in the library. You're not allowed to.

Speaker 1:

You don't leave my house with that book.

Speaker 2:

Well, because I lost a book. You know, I have books that are from the 1800s that you can't get anymore. They're very expensive. So I'm like you can come, but you know, if that's your zone of genius, that's great. But even I hire out, like you know, and there's nothing. We I think it's this idea that we're admitting defeat, or whether or not we're not smart enough, and I think the value here is to recognize that someone else may have a zone of genius that you don't have and that you can learn from. And then you know, later on, if you want to make that your own genius, we'll probably need more, whatever that person is doing anyway, yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1:

I think it's about also claiming our power. So paying someone to do the job, that to help us with something, isn't defeatist. It's saying I'm, I'm owning this situation and I believe I'm worth the expert help or the expert guidance. And then doing it because people have endless amounts of money for the shake formulas or whatever scheme comes their way and I'm like, yeah.

Speaker 2:

I have literally seen women pay and this is seems to be more. I work mostly with women. I do work with men as well, but I do work more with women and it seems like number one. We have this and this is a societal cancer. Quote unquote, if you will. I'm not taking away from the diagnosis, but this is a societal problem that we have. That maybe is a better term that women.

Speaker 2:

We do not, we can't invest in ourselves, we can't invest in our health and I'm like okay, but you're paying 500 for something that somebody signed, a piece of paper and they're not even educated on what you're taking. It may be doing more harm than good. Or then you get that okay, now herbalism doesn't work, whereas if you, if you took the three months and ditching that stuff and you actually worked with someone, you're going to cause, they're going to tailor it to you, they're going to and they're going to say okay, what's working, what's not working, what do we need to do, what do we need to tweak, what else can we do in this? And they're also going to give you a lifetime benefit yeah.

Speaker 1:

And then it can last a lifetime instead of you know whatever $500 a month for something that you can't. Or whatever. That's exactly right and I'm not saying that those things don't necessarily have their place. As anyone who knows anything about me knows, I am not a fan of MLM kind of stuff.

Speaker 2:

No me neither.

Speaker 1:

We find a way to afford the things we want, and it is okay for us to afford someone to help us when we need it.

Speaker 2:

Yes, absolutely, I know for me. I think, for me personally, one of the things that was an eye opener for me was my grandbaby at the time, grand number one, who's eight now. He said, mama, why you cry all the time? You need hugs, time you need hugs. And what I realized was me not getting the help and the support that I needed and, more importantly, deserved was affecting him, and we don't always think about it like that is whatever it is. And so now, of course, I need to do it for me and I think you know I like I work with people with like smoking cessation and I work with like anxiety, people in chronic illness.

Speaker 2:

I do a lot of different work but ultimately it needs to be for you. But sometimes you don't have that, that in you in the moment, the inspiration to do it. Yeah, that's how people, if you can't do it for you, do it for your dog, do it for your grandbabies, do it for your children, whatever that quote unquote is, whatever that quote unquote is and then, after you get you start healing. Then you're going to see I'm worth it, yeah, I'm worth it to do it for me.

Speaker 1:

I do love that I do love that. I feel like um. I heard someone interesting say something about um. The loss of ancestral knowledge and care over the last few generations has really distanced and separated humans from being able to say I'm worth this for whatever is going on inside. Not, I make a lot of money, so I deserve a car. You know like that, that difference between taking care of ourselves and between taking care of ourselves and whatever money can buy us because we know money can buy a lot, you know.

Speaker 1:

I think it's really cool that you work with people in a way that helps them have some long term effects and sustainability in their treatment. I think that's awesome. So where can people find?

Speaker 2:

you. Yeah, so I'm kellyhugertcom. Kelly with an I hugertcom or Mama Kelly, we'll all should get there as well M-A-W-M-A-W. Kellywithanicom, because everybody calls me Mama Kelly. Either one of those will get you to my website and you know I always do like pro bono consultation.

Speaker 2:

It's no cost to see if we are matched to work together.

Speaker 2:

More importantly, if I have tools to support someone because I want to be ethical in my practice as well and if I get to talk with someone and I don't feel like I'm the best practitioner for them, I'm going to do the right thing Refer them to someone else. So the call is free and they can jump on my website and schedule a call. I only work two days a week right now because I'm in dissertation. I'm almost finished, actually, with my research, but because of what we talked about is we have to take care of ourselves first, right? If you can't put your own mask on, you can't help anybody else. So I do work two days a week right now until at least until I finish up my dissertation. But, yeah, a phone call with me is totally free and then we discuss whether or not there's resources there. If not, I refer them to somebody else and then, of course, if I have the resources for them sometimes I do, unless it's something extremely complicated Then we talk about what does that look like for us to work together?

Speaker 1:

That's awesome. I love the. That's always been a big thing for me the referring someone on and I don't feel like is going to be a good match or get benefit from from working with me. And sometimes they come back and say you told me to try this out. I didn't like them. I do want to work with you and maybe the vibe is different at that point, Right, yeah.

Speaker 1:

But I think that's so important to remember that you don't have to be the perfect fit for everyone, right, and not everyone needs to get everything they need from one person. You know, as you were saying earlier, staying in your zone of genius and stuff like that. You know, I think it's like it's so important because not everybody, not every health provider, can give every client everything they need, and they shouldn't. That's scary.

Speaker 2:

Right, exactly, I mean, I like they can?

Speaker 1:

that's a little like oh okay, how big's the ego man.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I, you know I'll refer different tools, you know. I mean, you know I'll say this is what we're going to do, but here's a tool from this person, I learned from this person, here's a resource from this person, or whatnot. But you absolutely have to be in your zone of genius. You know, I love baby herbalists. They're so beautiful, they're so wonderful, they're so excited, and I love their excitement. And also, at the same time, we also have to understand that and they need to learn too. We all need to learn and we've all been white belts, so to speak, at some point, but that's fine.

Speaker 2:

But we also still have to remember to act in our zone of genius and make sure that we resonate with somebody, because if it feels like there's a conflict, it may not be the best fit, and it may. They may be another practitioner that's a better fit. I had one client come to me. This was many years ago. She had spent over $15,000 on practitioners, tests, all these things, and when she came, came to me I'm typically people's last stop shop, so to speak, like I'm like we've tried everything, we're not sure who to reach out to, but somebody gave you, you know, somebody gave me your number, that kind of thing. So usually that tends to be the clients that I get.

Speaker 2:

But she had spent over fifteen thousand dollars on supplements, practitioners, practitioners, whatever and when she came in to work with me she was real hesitant, which I don't blame her. That's more money going out. And after we worked together you know it was like maybe six weeks or something, I can't remember now that was a long time ago she was like, oh my gosh, I wish I'd found you before. I spent $15,000 in all this mess, yeah and I say that to say.

Speaker 2:

I mean, we used to be at least a nice used car. Probably not now, but but but. But that's sort of my point to all that you know. Find somebody, have a chat with them, but wasting your time and spinning your wheels for years and years and years or worse, asking social media, where people have very little education on unless it really is their zone of genius, and usually they're not spending time answering the questions anyway, they're usually seeing clients. It's just really really important to make sure that you find somebody that resonates with you, and whoever that is, that's perfect, as long as they're skilled. Check like on my website, which I'm sure you do this as well. On my website I have a little. Do this as well. On my website I have a little thing they can click on. It says my education. Now I don't list everything because I'd be here, you know you would literally have 50 pages, literally.

Speaker 2:

I know, but what I do is I list the highlights and you know, and all those things. So they. I don't want them to take my word for it.

Speaker 1:

I want them to say, okay, okay, okay, okay we have people call us to verify that students actually went through the program. Consumers are getting a lot more educated. Clients are starting to say, hey, we can verify this stuff. There's places we can call. So I'm always telling students look, you put your education on there and you invite them, yes, to check on you. I do Give them that whole cone of safety.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so people feel so much more confident in the industry and in their practitioner. I just love that you put that information out there and you've always been an advocate of you know, being clear, and you know, and I've always really liked that about all the work that I've seen of yours.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I've always been known as the no fads zone. I don't do fads. I never have done fads. I always look at the research, peer-reviewed research and I want to make sure that, at the end of the day, when I lay my head down on the pillow, that not only the content I put out on social media, but my practice you know my private practice, my clients, whatever I want to know that I've done the best that I can and I've given them 1000%.

Speaker 1:

I love that. I love that. I agree. I think that, look, we don't have to be perfect, we don't have to get everything right all the time Nobody does but I think we all got to work hard to be as transparent and as clear as possible with clients, and I think that one of the great things is being able to say no to a client or being able to say yeah, no, this is and I have done that. I know you have.

Speaker 2:

I've said to people. You know, with all due respect, I don't think here's a resource. Let me see if I can. I have referred people out, like I mean, I'm just like I don't specialize in that and but I know somebody who does and I'm more than happy to do that, and it's not it. It's, I think, to me if a practitioner can't do that, that's more of a red flag. Exactly, I agree with you 100% To me then you know to say oh no, I know it all and I can do it all.

Speaker 2:

Eh what can you? So? Yeah, no, I think it's real important to be ethical in your practice.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I love that. I love that so much. So what else are you up to lately? Because you are always doing something. So what other things can people expect from you soon?

Speaker 2:

Well, I'm working on the dissertation, so that's you know. Once it's done, then you got to go through and edit. So even though it's, you know, pretty much done, there's edits and there's all the kinds of things. You know it's close but anyway. And then I did publish one book that is going to, that's being republished now, but it's kind of on the back burner and it is actually about what my dissertation is on.

Speaker 2:

You know, therapeutics for complex PTSD. The name of it, the name of it escapes me. I think I call it. We may come up with a new title, but it's the first time I just self-published. It was from lost to living mind body medicine, approach to recovery from abuse. But within that mind body medicine model is herbs, you know, aromatherapy, flower essences, and I pack that in. Now, I don't overwhelm people, so I only share, like my top three essential oils. Overwhelm people, so I only share, like my top three essential oils. Right, my top three. Whatever, I'd like to do the top three, because you know I could write probably a series of books at this point if you can nail me down, make me sit down long enough, but so you can.

Speaker 2:

you can look for that. You can go to the website. I'm always have like a new blog coming out. I have the group program, so so you know if anybody is struggling with complex PTSD, especially as a highly sensitive person. My next book is going to be on dysautonomia pots recovering naturally from that.

Speaker 1:

And that is a massive uptick in diagnosis. Yes, I mean like.

Speaker 2:

I a lot of the comments genetic, but what we're seeing now with different, with with long COVID, we're we're finally seeing because long COVID people are being diagnosed with it and it's actually getting more traction Like, well, you know, I was misdiagnosed for 37 years. I was, I was medically gas lit. So that's going to be the next book and I may write. And then eventually I do want to write something from a highly sensitive person perspective which is kind of the other book. But you know, I've always got two or three books in the mind. That's the problem. I've got so much in there. I don't think it's a problem.

Speaker 1:

We need. We need more material like that that talks about things that you know are part of our changing and shifting world. You know, yeah, and I've been asked now to.

Speaker 2:

you know I've had a lot of people with the, with Reese, the last six months ish or so. A lot of people have reached out and said, well, you start teaching herbalism again, and so I've had a couple of conversation with people. Just, lack of time is mainly the only reason. I said if you set up the class, tell me what you want, then I'll come and teach it. As long as it's within my zone of genius, I'll never teach about anything that's not within my zone of genius.

Speaker 2:

But I think right now you know, offering classes, local community classes, even just going to the library, even if you just offer, you know I'm going to do a library free stress class I work with. I've done free classes for like local veterinarians, you know. So there's so many different ways that we can get our name out there. You don't always have to be free for presentations, you can if that's something that feels right for you. My veterinarian is like, oh no, there's got to be an energetic exchange. We'll work that out, that's not. I'm not worried about the financial part of it in any way, shape or form. I just want to be a blessing and I want to be a value and I think that's really where we can shine right now.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I love that. Yeah, we are definitely, I think, rolling into some interesting areas in our world. It feels like it's changing incredibly fast. I don't know if it's just I'm just getting old, but it definitely. I'm like wait, what's going on? And and I think that people need something that's anchored in realness and what's real than nature and health.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and to be honest with you, even if we didn't look at it from an herbal perspective, even if we only looked at it from a mental health perspective, growing plants and being out in the garden and growing, even if you don't, if you're not interested in that aspect. That's what I was going to say. You took the words right out of my mouth. Horticulture therapy and nature's therapy are valuable tools for our mental health, and right now, mental health issues are skyrocketing.

Speaker 1:

Oh, absolutely, you know what I'm gonna say this. I think a lot of it has to do with this box in front of us. I think blue light and not getting any fresh air and sunshine. And I actually a few weeks ago maybe it's closer to the beginning of the year I actually said, from now on I'm up with the sun and I'm taking in that red light and sunset, I'm taking in that light. I'm going to wear, you know, be more proactive about wearing my little blue light glasses when I'm on the computer. I can't really now because it's kind of weird to have someone talking to you with pink lenses. But my sleep's improved a ton yeah, like a ton. My melatonin receptors are completely and I was like why didn't no one tell me this before?

Speaker 1:

I mean I have a cup of coffee looking at the sunrise. Hello. That's everybody's dream, it's beautiful or whatever, and I couldn't believe it.

Speaker 2:

I just was like my sleep is so much better Just 10 minutes a day. Yeah, I actually am a teacher assistant for the school where I'm getting my doctor, my doctoral program, and so unless there's a video conference that I have to be on late, everybody knows I'm up with the chick. What is that I get? I get up with the chickens and go to bed with the birds or whatever the same yeah, yeah hey, but that's the same way.

Speaker 2:

I'm up at 5 am 99 of the time, unless I need an extra nap or whatever, and at six o'clock the computer goes off, no matter what, unless I've got, unless you know, god forbid, the house was burning down and I got to get out or whatever the computer goes off. I adopted that many years ago and I'll tell you it was a huge benefit. Wow, I love that, I absolutely love that. And then quit the scroll, quit the scrolling on it. Doom scrolling, doom scrolling. Yeah, yeah, replace that scrolling on doom scrolling, doom scrolling.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, oh yeah, replace that if it's not showing me like someone in their garden.

Speaker 2:

Homemade bread or cute animal thing I'm not interested I can show me a little roly-poly kitten and I'm good I know right, you know you can replace that with little micro learning some you know herbalism or micro learning, whatever you're interested in, and it's huge, you know it's.

Speaker 2:

You know I say this to my clients and I think I said it in the book as well and and but it's. This is true it's what we do day in, day out that either hurts or heals. It's our daily routine that is either hurting us or healing us. I love that, and that is difficult to wrap our head around, but when we have tools that we can do those things to navigate that, oh wow, what a difference does it make.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I love that. That's got to be like a new motto for humankind, right, yeah, make a choice. You can hurt yourself or help yourself today, but if you ask yourself that, does this hurt or heal before you?

Speaker 2:

I mean, you know I'm not saying you can't. I mean, like I go to karaoke you know I got to be honest with you I might have a little glass of wine if I go to karaoke. It's rare but I may do that, hey.

Speaker 1:

I may be there next to you with the vodka. I mean, there's no need for me to be a grown up, 24, seven Exactly.

Speaker 2:

You got to get your dance on, you got to get your groove, you know, and that's good Because that does help, that is healing. But what I mean is is it, what are what we doing?

Speaker 1:

You know, destructive habits, yeah yeah. And are we loving in a way that's helpful or harmful? And are we helping each other in a way that's helpful or harmful? You know, I've always tried to raise my kids with the idea that the work that you do makes a difference. And are you making a difference in a way that you're, you're proud of yourself? Are you making a difference in a way that I'm just doing this for the money and there's nothing wrong with that approach? We all need money.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean we have have to pay our bills we're going to make a bigger impact in the world in the long run.

Speaker 2:

just doing it for the money it's not going to get. You're just going to get burned out and whatever and whatever. Um, you've got to be passionate, like. My daughter is like one of the only certified baby wearers in the state of virginia. That's her passion and she's great, great at it and she does educational videos and all that kind of stuff, but that is her passion. Now you can take that and also help people and make money. So that's the idea. Now you got to figure out all the nuances with it. But I think you're right and there's nothing wrong with also working a nine to five while you're building your passion. Or there's also nothing wrong with working a nine to five and your passion being checking out when you get home and just checking out, yeah, and, and then after you're home, that's your passion.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I agree. I just like, uh, you know you're a small business owner too, so you understand what I'm saying, but you know sometimes there's something about leaving work, shutting the light off and going home and when you own your own ship, you can't always do that that they were maybe upset that I couldn't offer them an immediate appointment at that time.

Speaker 2:

But what kind of example am I'm going to set for my clients if I am going to teach them about boundaries and I am going to teach them about self-healing and I am going to teach them how powerful they are and to stand in their own power, if I don't stand in my own power before they even come to me? Yeah, really, really.

Speaker 1:

That's a good point.

Speaker 2:

You know what I mean. Don't be a doormat.

Speaker 1:

Walk all over me.

Speaker 2:

So I think we have to live it. I think it can be difficult. It can be difficult to live it, especially if you come from a situation where you're in a trauma, with those type of things and people pleasing. We know it's a trauma response, but once you kind of work through that stuff and you can stand in your power, I think when you do that, you give permission to other people to do the same, and that's my goal really in the end, whether they just, like I've had people go I don't want anything to do with aromatherapy, but I want flower essences. What can you recommend? Okay, no worries, I got. I got you covered on that one as well. But helping them stand in their own power in whatever way feels right for them, that's the most important thing.

Speaker 1:

I agree and I also find when working with clients that if they aren't able to do that and they don't feel comfortable doing that, sometimes they don't tell you right away if something isn't working right, because in the past they've been getting awesome. It's a healing crisis.

Speaker 1:

You know, in the past they've been told all this gobbledygook right, we have so much to overcome from just crappy marketing exactly exactly the sales pitch, but I mean like it does allow them to also be like hey, this isn't working for me, let's find a solution, and then you can help them find a solution and you guys can work together and be a team and collaboratively be yeah, a unit that's working. So how can people find you again?

Speaker 2:

yeah, I'm kellyhugercom. It's kelly with an I h-e-g-h-a-r-tcom, or I'm known as mama kelly, so you can go to mama kellycom again. Kelly with an I um, and my phone number is actually 804-YA-HYPNO. I better do that for me, because I'm not tech savvy.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I love that, that's my direct line.

Speaker 2:

I may not get back with you right away, but that is my direct line. You can leave a message and then I'll be happy to circle back. That's awesome. Thank you so much, but I want to thank you for the work that you're continuing to do and the work that you know, the beautiful, compassionate, educated herbalist that you put out in the world because that's powerful.

Speaker 1:

Oh, thanks. That's really sweet of you to say. I really appreciate that.

Speaker 2:

That's really nice, you're making me all. I'm going to turn even pinker. Over here, we're all going to be. We're all clamped over here, we're all going to be red.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you so much for being here today, and do me a favor and get us a link to your book, if you can, so we can put it in the bio. If you don't have it and it's not ready yet, whenever it's ready, you send it to me. Everyone's listening, so then I can put it in later so people can find you and the work that you do Perfect and send the links to everything else. Yeah, sounds great. All right, cool, thank you so much Thanks bye-bye, bye.

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Demetria Clark

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